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Author Topic: How can you tell a real "S"?  (Read 13950 times)
macaroni
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Murena and Multipla - I like it 3 abreast!


« on: August 30, 2006, 09:36:29 pm »

I'm going to see a supposed Murena "S" at the weekend. It is a 1982 model, so it must an aftersales kit and it has a 4 branch manifold (with 4 output silencer!) and twin Solex carbs. Question is, is there any other way to determine if it is a genuine "S" kit with the hotter cam?

Also, the MOT on this car runs out in December, so what weaknesses are there to check for?

Also (full of questions aren't I), does the inlet manifold need much mods to fit DCOE carbs?

Cheers,

Antony
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2006, 10:51:17 pm »

The S kit on the engine consists of both cam, distributor, and different carburettors. The carbs are easy to identify as the S-kit has two side draught Solex carbs instead of the single down draught.

In addition to that, the S-kit consisted of side sills and the rear spoiler plus a few other items I think.

I have done some research on what to look for while going through the process of finding my own Murena. For MOT I'd say that the main issue is brakes being good and rear trailing arms not being too rusty. Water pumps failing and heads overheating and cracking seems to be a too common problem too. Finally, some has had heavy wear and eventually complete breakdown because of oil pumps failing. Less than optimal lubrication and/or cooling kills the engine. It's not the type of engine that you are careless about, also because it's quite difficult/expensive to find a new one should yours fail.

Apart from that just look for the usual stuff on older cars - except rust though that is generally not a problem.

- Anders Wink
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
macaroni
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2006, 11:29:11 pm »

Thanks Anders, this car has the carbs and side skirts, but no rear spoiler. I guess it has bits of the kit fitted. I hope the cam is there!

It has also had the trailing arms replaced, but not sure about the oil pump. Apparently it has had a very pampered life for the past 14 years, so I won't be hammering it straight away should I buy it!
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Will Falconer
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2006, 08:54:46 am »

If this is the car for sale in Nottinghamshire, then I can confirm that it had new trailing arms last year as I supplied them.
I've known the owner for a long time but don't remember the car although I know he's had it for a long time and hardly uses it.


Looking at the pictures I came across I think it must be an 'S' kit as it is a pre-'83 car.

Only a genuine 's' or 's' kit will have the Matra plastic airbox on the carbs. Most aftermarket twin carb conversions use pancake filters direct on to the carbs which can be quite noise so close to your ears.  Twin Solexes probably make it genuine;  Matra owned Solex and aftermarket fitments are always Dellorto or Weber.

All 2.2's and 'S's had the cast  exhaust manifold, but most have been replaced by 4 branch as the iron manifolds nearly always crack eventually.

Happy road testing!
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macaroni
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2006, 09:18:11 am »

Cheers Will, yes it is the one in Notts - small world!

He has it on a classic insurance policy that limits use to 1500 miles a year!

I doubt I will treat it with exactly the same kid gloves, but I will respect its age.

I'm very excited about it...
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Will Falconer
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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2006, 11:08:34 am »

I forgot to add that the rear wing may have been left off because some people prefer not to fit them; they steal a little rear view particularly when reversing and make it more difficult to get into the boot for servicing.
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macaroni
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2006, 02:33:06 pm »

OK, well I just spoke to the garage that fitted the "S" kit, Sports Cars Unlimited in Newcastle, and he definitely confirmed it has the fast road cam, twin Solex carbs and 4 branch manifold. He also confirmed that the car used to be silver! As it is now red, he suspects some accident damage has occured.

So a genuine S kit 2.2 for £2250. If it drives OK, I am definitely gonna go for it.
He also said that they have a huge stock of old-stock new parts and used parts. Handy to know.
Tel number is 0191 281 4036.
He seemed very friendly and knowledgeable.
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macaroni
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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2006, 11:37:20 am »

Well I drove this car at the weekend and have done some more research about them.
It has had only the nearside (UK - drivers side on LHD car) trailing arm replaced. The other side was drilled to check for structural integrity and then spray-filled with oil.

It isn't a genuine prep 142 "S" kit. The garage that sold it fitted their cars with a fast road cam, 4 branch manifold and twin Solex carbs. The inlet manifold isn't angled, so there is only room for small pancake air filters. These were noisy, but of more concern to me is the fact that they will be breathing hot air from the enclosed engine bay. I guess that could be solved with some cold air feed pipes.

The gearchange was very sloppy, but I understand that is easily fixable, once the area of sloppiness has been identified.

It drove well, with no pulling to one side and the brakes felt very strong. Just had new calipers all round fitted.

I was a tight squeeze in there! What is with the adjustable foot board for the passengers?

The lights went up very quickly, even with the engine off and everything seemed to work apart from the passengers window and the heated rear window. I'm sure they can be fixed easily. Anyone know which other cars use the same electric window lifters?

I have a week to think about it, but for the price and condition I may just go for it.
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krede
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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2006, 07:00:19 pm »

I wouldnt worry too much about the carbs sucking in hot air.... there are quite some circulation in front of the engine, and even IF there wasnt.. just take a look at politecs high spec engines... they use bolt on filters too... so it cant be that much of an issue.

The Window lifters are from a Talbot tagora as far as i know...
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2006, 08:41:29 pm »

It isn't a genuine prep 142 "S" kit.
however, it looks like they did all the modifications, except for the rear spoiler, which while effective isn't the most practical thing on Earth :-)
And at speeds under 100mph I doubt it makes much difference.

breathing hot air
As Krede says, this is not a big problem, as the air effectively circulates within the engine compartment while you're on the move. As far as I know, Matra did windtunnel tests to ensure the airflow would be drawn up and around the enginebay.

The gearchange was very sloppy
The ball under the gearlever is one common source of sloppyness
The ball-joints in the linkage is another, - and they are relatively easy and cheap to fix.

The ball-joint at the back of the long rod running along the underside of the car often has a big influence. Note that the whole rod is designed to sway right/left as well as rotate - don't try to fixate it to the chassis, unless you are left with no other options.

I was a tight squeeze in there! What is with the adjustable foot board for the passengers?
Most of us are a tight squeeze there - in either direction so to speak.  I'm 85kg 6' 4" and a bit - and have no problems whatsoever fitting myself in a Murena.... but ok, I am probably slightly enthusiastic :-)

But honestly, I am more comfortable in my Murena than in many cars, - and I never have any back-problems in the Murena (but had to modify the seat somewhat in my Peugeot 106 "T-car" )

The foot-board was not included on all cars, - I think none of the 1.6's had them, and maybe only some of the 2.2 ? - does it have the box ahead of the gearlever ?

My car has neither box nor foot-rest - i.e. a totally flat floor.
( http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Murena/Gallery1/Med/dsc_4458s.html )

The lights went up very quickly,
very good sign indeed. 
this is a good test of the vacuum system, - after you stop the engine, how many hours does the vacuum still pull the headlights down, making them hard to lift by hand?

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
macaroni
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Murena and Multipla - I like it 3 abreast!


« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2006, 01:24:15 pm »

So, can anyone advise me if the price for this car is fair?

1982 2.2 Murena with aftermarket twin Dellorto 40s, Holbay Tornado cam, 4 branch manifold and replica Devil quad exit backbox.
90,000km, MOT/tax till December.

Recent tyres, calipers all round, nearside trailing arm and water pump.

Advertised as an "S" for £2250.

Or should I offer £1750 as a cheeky opening bid?
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2006, 08:39:14 pm »

Advertised as an "S" for £2250.

well, THAT is IMO quite cheap already - even had it needed a respray and some work. But it sounds as if it is ready to go ? - I wouldn't hesitate to pay that wihtout negotiating at all.

On the continent it appears that all the excess German cars have been sold, (the prosoect of having to fit a catalythic converter caused many to sell them at fairly low prices)  and prices seem to be higher than in the UK.

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2006, 10:22:12 pm »

I agree fully with Lennart. Don't give a bid. Just buy it - before anybody on the continent does ;-)
You will love the Holbay cam!
It is obviously not an original S but that is of no importance at that price.
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
macaroni
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Murena and Multipla - I like it 3 abreast!


« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2006, 11:04:17 pm »

OK, I have sold my Xantia Activa to a guy with a Lotus Esprit (who claimed the Xantia cornered as well as his Lotus) and he picks it up next week, so the Murena deal is on!

When the vendor returns from his holidays this weekend I will send him a deposit and secure the car.

My wife and mother are not pleased, but who cares!! As long as me and my boys can enjoy the car, thats all that matters.
My eldest boy is very excited about Daddy buying a car with 4 exhausts!

Just then gotta lose my 205 and buy a more sensible car that my wife can drive. Anyone know of any cheap Avantimes?
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2006, 12:03:47 am »

sold my Xantia Activa to a guy with a Lotus Esprit
Well the Xantia Activa is one stunning car, with its flat cornering.

Quote
Anyone know of any cheap Avantimes?
Hahaha - you definitely have got the Matra bug already, haven't you ? :-)

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
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