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Author Topic: New Murena owner on forum/carburetor problem  (Read 16910 times)
variator
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-83 Matra Murena 2.2


« on: August 21, 2013, 11:07:21 pm »

Hello, I'm new here on the forum and as a Murena owner, and I will first say that I think this seems like a forum with members who possess a lot of great knowledge and it is a nice tone here.

Have taken a preliminary review of the car and found a few errors that I have to get corrected eventually, but no major flaws. The car runs rough, both at idle and at speed, and it also has a "hesitation" by forcing.
I assume this must be due to carburetor. Have checked vacuum hoses and I now believe this to be ok. Got hold of a 34CIC carburetor that has been mounted on a Citroen CX, does anyone know if this can be mounted directly on my car? (a -83 2.2)

Seller had used the repair kit on the carburetor sitting on the car, this obviously had no effect on the problem.

Pictures of my car are coming! Smiley


Regards Terje from Norway

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2001 Saab 9-5 2,3T, 1981 Porsche 928, 1981 Honda cb 900 F, 1968 Triumph Trophy TR6R, 1986 Yamaha RD 350 YPVS
uberprutser
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2013, 12:24:12 am »

Welcome, and happy motoring with your new car Smiley

I would swap the jets with the onces from the original carb.
But also consider the distributor as a source of your problems.
Has the car been standing for a long time?
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RazorbackNOR
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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2013, 10:26:17 am »

Hello Terje, where in Norway are you? Drammen here. I have some contacts with other Murena guys from H°nefoss, Hamar, Oslo and Akershus.

This might sound quite similar to the problem with my car, I have the original carb, also cleared out the vacuum problems(I think), but still stutters when trying to accelerate more then gradually.

There is a accelerator pump, which gives the carb that extra squirt of petrol when accelerating. the membran on this might not be up to spec, since I believe this is not replaced in the gasket kit. There is also from the "pump" a oneway valve then passing from the lower half of the carb to the upper, this might be clogged, preventing petrol from flowing to the nozzle. Also beware that the o-ring on this spigot is not supplied in the gasket kit either, Anders on the forum has made his own post about this problem.

http://dinsen.net/murena/carburettor/maintenance
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2010 Mazda 3 1,6  Diesel Gunmetal Blue
1983 Matra Murena 2.2 Platine
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variator
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-83 Matra Murena 2.2


« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2013, 04:41:50 pm »

Thank you very much Uberprutser and RazorbackNOR!
I live in Valdres RazorbackNOR, not many Murena here I'll tell you! Cheesy
It looks like I have a leak in the headlight lifting mechanism after all, I can not lift headlights after I turned off the engine, this could be the reason for the erratic engine?
Which of vacuum outlet of the intake goes on headlights, the right or the left (seen from behind)?

And RazorbackNOR: I do`t think the guy in Akershus have his car anny more:)

Sorry Kjetil, it was not with ill will that I referred to you as "gay", it was a terrible mistake in my spelling! Smiley))))))))
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 10:51:25 pm by variator » Logged

2001 Saab 9-5 2,3T, 1981 Porsche 928, 1981 Honda cb 900 F, 1968 Triumph Trophy TR6R, 1986 Yamaha RD 350 YPVS
matramurena
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« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2013, 08:17:47 pm »

the gay in Akershus
Grin Grin

Welcome! Your Murena. Sounds like a proble in the vac-system. Hope you can find it soon.

Can you maybe tell me some more about driving the Murena in Norway? I go there every year on holiday (and we have a long-term plan for moving there) Just three weeks ago I was close to you, spending a week in Beitostolen... But I always drive the Avantime or Pontiac Trans Sport. The roads don't all seem to be very Murena-friendly. If not for the holes and such then at least because of the speed-bumps.  Shocked They almost launch my Pontiac when driving over them at the speed allowed.....

Cheers,
Martijn
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1983 Matra Murena V6 (AR engine)
2003 Matra Avantime 2.0T Expression
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RazorbackNOR
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« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2013, 10:06:15 pm »

Thank you very much Uberprutser and RazorbackNOR!
I live in Valdres RazorbackNOR, not many Murena here I'll tell you! Cheesy
It looks like I have a leak in the headlight lifting mechanism after all, I can not lift headlights after I turned off the engine, this could be the reason for the erratic engine?
Which of vacuum outlet of the intake goes on headlights, the right or the left (seen from behind)?

And RazorbackNOR: I do`t think the gay in Akershus have his car anny more:)



Not many in Drammen either...
One easy why to check if the vacuum has any influence on the running is to take a bit of decent size hose and fit between the two outlets on the intake manifold.
Infact, I have already driven your car!  Grin From what I remembered it studderd just a little if accelerating a bit hard, mine isn't even roadworthy with the way it's acting....

I do believe that it is a membran in the accelerator pump which is your problem.
Can't tell you which goes where now, since I don't have the car in my garage here now.

By the way, your car was rel fun to drive!
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2010 Mazda 3 1,6  Diesel Gunmetal Blue
1983 Matra Murena 2.2 Platine
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variator
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-83 Matra Murena 2.2


« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2013, 11:25:21 pm »

Thank you very much Uberprutser and RazorbackNOR!
I live in Valdres RazorbackNOR, not many Murena here I'll tell you! Cheesy
It looks like I have a leak in the headlight lifting mechanism after all, I can not lift headlights after I turned off the engine, this could be the reason for the erratic engine?
Which of vacuum outlet of the intake goes on headlights, the right or the left (seen from behind)?

And RazorbackNOR: I do`t think the gay in Akershus have his car anny more:)



Not many in Drammen either...
One easy why to check if the vacuum has any influence on the running is to take a bit of decent size hose and fit between the two outlets on the intake manifold.
Infact, I have already driven your car!  Grin From what I remembered it studderd just a little if accelerating a bit hard, mine isn't even roadworthy with the way it's acting....

I do believe that it is a membran in the accelerator pump which is your problem.
Can't tell you which goes where now, since I don't have the car in my garage here now.

By the way, your car was rel fun to drive!
It was fun that you've run my car! From what I've seen so far it is in very good condition, interior is very nice!
To blend the two outlets I also intend to do, but it was smart to use a hose between them.
Do you know what the second outlet goes to, is this for the brake servo?
Is there a WEBER carburetor that is "bolt on"for the Murena?

And Martijn: The Norwegian roads are a disgrace and you really got to try them on your trip to Beitostølen! When I run the Murena I must stick to the good roads Smiley But I would like to welcome you to Norway, many of your fellow citizens are allreddy arrived here!

Sorry Kjetil, it was not with ill will that I referred to you as "gay", it was a terrible mistake in my spelling! Smiley)))))))


Update: Have now closed both vacuum outlet of the intake manifold and the engine was behaving much better, was not shooting in the exhaust when I let up the gas, so I definitely have a leak in the vacuum system! But the engine was still poorly and unevenly at idle.
Then it remains to find the leak in the vacuum system and why it will not idle properly.
Anybody have any idea where I should look? I have replaced the vacum hoses in the engine compartment.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 03:41:32 pm by variator » Logged

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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2013, 05:14:29 pm »


---------------
Anybody have any idea where I should look? I have replaced the vacum hoses in the engine compartment.
Welcome to the forum variator.
You mention that the headlights cannot be raised after the engine has been shut off.
They should be able to raise and lower a couple of times with a properly tight vacuum. If they don't move at all it must be a pretty big leak.
The problem could very well be in the headlight vacuum motor (cracked membrane), the lift solenoid or the hoses to/from the motor to the lift solenoid. Also the hose from the engine compartment, but that could also affect your breaking power. Does it brake properly? and how well do they lift/lower with the engine running?
But since it affects the engine performance also check that the vacuum reservoir in the right side of the engine compartment, behind the ignition coil, is intact. We have seen them be cracked before. On mine the hoses to the reservoir were dry and cracked. But I also had a leak in the lift solenoid and cracked hoses to the lift motor.
Good luck.  Grin
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Matranaut par excellence Cool
variator
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-83 Matra Murena 2.2


« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2013, 09:37:18 pm »

Thanks for all the great input!
I found the reason why the headlights are not lifted with the engine of. The hose running from the intake to the vacuum reservoir was cracked and after replacing the hose and most of t-pieces (they were brittle as biscuits) everything worked as it should.

Then I changed the spark plugs and spark plug wires and the engine seemed even better.
Last modification is that I have mounted electric fuel pump. I first mounted a pressure pump but this beat so loudly that I switched to a suction pump, this works like a dream!
I have not removed the mechanical pump yet, but intend to do so and clog up the opening with a steel plate where the pump was located.

Jon: Do my car also have a vacuum motor?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 09:45:41 pm by variator » Logged

2001 Saab 9-5 2,3T, 1981 Porsche 928, 1981 Honda cb 900 F, 1968 Triumph Trophy TR6R, 1986 Yamaha RD 350 YPVS
northmurena
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« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2013, 12:01:46 am »

Hej Terje, welcome to the forum and congratulation to be a Matra-owner.

a Murena do not have a seperat vacuum-motor ( sorry Jon for answering sooner ;-) ). All the vacuum is produced by the engine. And - of course - that causes problems many times. It┤s a long way and plastic cracks when it is getting old.

I changed my car to an electrical vacuum-pump. Since then the engine is running also much smoother, even when it is cold. If you understand german, here┤s a link : http://matraforum.de/forum/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=4924&highlight=

My solution is what you can find posted by "Heimkehrer".

Hilsen fra Danmark

Kai

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variator
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-83 Matra Murena 2.2


« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2013, 06:46:10 pm »

Hei and thank you Kai!

What kind of pump is best to assemble for this purpose? Have looked at and considered central locking pump for Golf. Or is it advisable to install something new?

If I understand correctly you used a pump from a Volvo V40 Kai? What parts do I need in addition to the pump?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 06:55:52 pm by variator » Logged

2001 Saab 9-5 2,3T, 1981 Porsche 928, 1981 Honda cb 900 F, 1968 Triumph Trophy TR6R, 1986 Yamaha RD 350 YPVS
northmurena
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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2013, 07:46:40 pm »

Hej Terje,

the Vacuum-pump is from Hella, called UP28. It is used in many cars. For example:
Volvo V40 S40 series
BMW E87 E60 E63 E64
Opel Astra diesel
Audi diesel
VW
Part-no. Volvo should be: 30616992
What you need in addition is the regulator, what stops the pump by reaching enough vacuum. I know the needed one is for sure in Volvo. I don┤t know what the other manufacturers are using. And you need a simple relais what is between ignition-power and regulator. It will be heplpful if you can get the original pipe with the original connector from the pump to the regulator. I just cutted this a bit so it fits perfect from the place where i placed the pump to the place where the regulator is. All the rest can be used from the parts that are left from the Murena. I only bought another 4 cm rubber to connect the other side of the reguator to the T-piece from the Murena ( that┤s normally in the engine-bay, now it is in the front ) From this T-piece  one pipe is going to the Breakmaster and the other one is used for the lights. Take care for the connection.The T-piece is opening only in one direction.
Just forgotten: of course you need a bit of wiring and some connectors ;-)

I wouldn┤t take a vacuum-pump from a locking-system. A locking-system is only used temporarly, for a short time. By using the vacuum also for the breakmaster it have to work much more.

Hilsen
Kai
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variator
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-83 Matra Murena 2.2


« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2013, 11:31:51 pm »


I ordered the pump tonight on Amazon!


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0030Z666E/ref=pe_385040_30332200_pe_309540_26725410_item
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2001 Saab 9-5 2,3T, 1981 Porsche 928, 1981 Honda cb 900 F, 1968 Triumph Trophy TR6R, 1986 Yamaha RD 350 YPVS
northmurena
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« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2013, 11:38:27 pm »

det var hurtig  Wink

Remember: you need also the regulator. Otherwise the pump will run all the time and the vacuum will be to high.

And if you need assistance or just an visual example: we have a meeting at the weekend 6/7/8 September at Fyn ;-)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 11:49:13 pm by northmurena » Logged
Matra_Hans
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« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2013, 01:10:51 pm »

Vacuum regulator:
I used a : DesignFlex, vacuum switch PSF109S-81-330. The manufacture is based in the USD, but the switch is available fraom various suppliers in Euope (including Denmark).

Hans
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