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Author Topic: Replacement solenoid for the light lifting mechanism  (Read 9299 times)
variator
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Posts: 95


-83 Matra Murena 2.2


« on: October 30, 2013, 06:52:29 pm »

Anyone who know if I can use a regular EGR solenoid to the light lifting mechanism on my Murena?

I think my original solenoid is leeking.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nissan-200SX-Sentra-Maxima-Pickup-Vacuum-Solenoid-Valve-VSV-K5T46583-AESA123-28-/161137473727?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item25848ab8bf&vxp=mtr#ht_1198wt_749



« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 09:12:16 pm by variator » Logged

2001 Saab 9-5 2,3T, 1981 Porsche 928, 1981 Honda cb 900 F, 1968 Triumph Trophy TR6R, 1986 Yamaha RD 350 YPVS
klumzer
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2013, 09:38:46 pm »

Unfortunately I can not answer your question.
But it is easy to check the original solenoid if it has a leakage between the housing sections. Then you can repair it with a sealant or a thin gasket. If it has an internal leakage a cleaning may solve the problem.

When I repaired my solenoid, I had internal leakage. One of the valves inside was open continuously. I had to calibrate the position of the electromagnet with shims.
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2013, 04:12:16 pm »

Unfortunately I can not answer your question.
------
When I repaired my solenoid, I had internal leakage.
------

I had a leakage problem too. Had to adjust the piston and the brackett that stops it from extending too far out of the housing.
But also, the whole valve is assembled with self-tapping screws that crack the nylon housing. I modified that by drilling holes all the way through and replacing the screws with long 3 mm bolts that now clamp the parts together snugly. No more leaks in the valve.
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Matranaut par excellence Cool
variator
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Posts: 95


-83 Matra Murena 2.2


« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2013, 11:37:56 pm »

I discovered that the solenoid leaked when the lights were closed so I opened the solenoid and cleaned it, but it still leaks at the opposite end of the solenoid valve.
I examined the parts thoroughly when I had it open, but the rubber seems soft and nice without damage.
Does anyone have an opinion on why it leaks when lights are closed?

klumzer wrote:
"When I repaired my solenoid, I had internal leakage. One of the valves inside was open continuously. I had to calibrate the position of the electromagnet with shims."

How did you use shims for the electromagnet klumzer?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 11:44:47 pm by variator » Logged

2001 Saab 9-5 2,3T, 1981 Porsche 928, 1981 Honda cb 900 F, 1968 Triumph Trophy TR6R, 1986 Yamaha RD 350 YPVS
klumzer
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2013, 05:48:54 pm »

The upper connection of the solenoid goes to the vacuum system, and the lower connections to the actuator. One side of the actuator is connected to the vacuum system and the other side is connected to the ambience (athmosphere) regarding the position of the valve pistons. If you turn on the lights, the piston of the electromagnet moves and operates the valve pistons. Each valve piston closes the connection at one side and opens the other side. Then the connections are reversed, the actuator moves and lifts up the lights.
If the piston in the electromagnet is not calibrated correctly, one of the valve is open at both sides. Then your vacuum system is connected to the ambience and you realise it as leakage (what I mentioned as intenal leakage).
If you use shim or shims (normal washers with different thickness, diameter 10mm) between the magnet and the valve housing, you can calibrate the movement and the position of the piston.
Remove the solenoid from the car, and test it. If you blow into the upper connection you must not feel the pressure at both lower outlets, always at one side only. If you operate the magnet, you have to feel the pressure at the other outlet and not at the first. If you found that you have pressure at both outlets and the valves do not have any damage inside, your problem can be solved with shims. First it is enough to turn the magnet just to see how the valves work better.
The outlet (lower connection) -where you do not feel the pressure when you blow into the upper connection- is connected to the ambience at normal operation. If you blow into that lower connection you have to realise the air at the end of the solenoid (marked "connection to ambience" in the photo).

I hope I could help you...


P.S.: Note that the valve pistons are not symmetric (one end is longer than the other- you can see it in the photo). It does matter how you install them!
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 06:23:03 pm by klumzer » Logged
variator
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-83 Matra Murena 2.2


« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2013, 06:40:02 pm »

Thanks for all your help guys, and a special thanks to you klumzer, for the great explanation of the valve!

I still can not get the valve to close completely and I have ordered a new one from Simon.
Do not understand completely what the reason is, rubber parts look undamaged. Is there any agent that can be used in rubber to clean / soften it up?
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2001 Saab 9-5 2,3T, 1981 Porsche 928, 1981 Honda cb 900 F, 1968 Triumph Trophy TR6R, 1986 Yamaha RD 350 YPVS
klumzer
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Posts: 370



« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2013, 06:47:04 pm »

It is advised not to use any lubricant in the solenoid, only some talcum powder. I found it in another topic on the forum.

Hopefully the new solenoid will solve the problem. Good luck!
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variator
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Posts: 95


-83 Matra Murena 2.2


« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2013, 06:58:17 pm »

It is when the solenoid has no power that the valve does not seal. Does it help to push the disk that holds the spring in place and thus more powerful spring pressure on the valve?
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2001 Saab 9-5 2,3T, 1981 Porsche 928, 1981 Honda cb 900 F, 1968 Triumph Trophy TR6R, 1986 Yamaha RD 350 YPVS
klumzer
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Posts: 370



« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2013, 07:50:32 pm »

If the position of the electromagnet is not calibrated correctly, the piston can be to long and prevent the valve pistons closing corretcly. In this case you need some shims to make the piston "shorter". Then the spring can push the valve piston against the rubber.
You should also check the bracket, maybe you nedd to bend it a bit...
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variator
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-83 Matra Murena 2.2


« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2013, 09:16:29 pm »

Leakage is present only before the light solenoid is activated,  when the lights are opened  it does not leak.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 09:30:20 pm by variator » Logged

2001 Saab 9-5 2,3T, 1981 Porsche 928, 1981 Honda cb 900 F, 1968 Triumph Trophy TR6R, 1986 Yamaha RD 350 YPVS
variator
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Posts: 95


-83 Matra Murena 2.2


« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2013, 09:13:00 pm »

Has still a leak after I installed the new valve. When the solenoid is not activated, it is leaking through the port on the end of the vacuum valve, and it looks like the vacuum goes through the actuator
Could it be the actuator that is faulty? And is it possible to repair this?
Does anyone have a drawing of the parts in the actuator?
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2001 Saab 9-5 2,3T, 1981 Porsche 928, 1981 Honda cb 900 F, 1968 Triumph Trophy TR6R, 1986 Yamaha RD 350 YPVS
klumzer
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Posts: 370



« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2013, 08:16:19 pm »

When I got my car, the actuator was unserviceable. I had to change the seal. The actuator was disassembled, metal parts were regalvanised and now it looks as a new one.
If the membrane is ok inside you do not need to disassemble it, I think. You can check it easily. Connect compressed air (use low pressure) to one of the connections and check for leaks. If you have leakage at the other connection, your membrane is not ok. You can also have leakage between the to parts of the housing. There is a seal at the piston rod it can leak also...

In this topic you can find some photos:

http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,2242.0.html
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Oetker
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« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2013, 03:26:48 am »

If you can't find I have 2 reserve laying around in good condition.
I thing they were fitted in Bagheera as wel.

Herman
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
variator
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Posts: 95


-83 Matra Murena 2.2


« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2013, 11:34:56 am »

Thank you Oetker! But I have already purchased and installed a new actuator which I bought in France from Politecnic, this works fine and looks nice, but has a terribly bad paint!

  http://www.politecnic.com/mateclairage.htm
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2001 Saab 9-5 2,3T, 1981 Porsche 928, 1981 Honda cb 900 F, 1968 Triumph Trophy TR6R, 1986 Yamaha RD 350 YPVS
Oetker
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« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2013, 12:48:29 pm »

If you are there, replace the plastic ball joints for nice priced metal.
They tend to break.
They also fit the gearthingy's

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320802834366?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649



Herman
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
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