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Author Topic: Espace Mk3 DCi JE0K G9T - wont start :(  (Read 16409 times)
BrianM
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Posts: 321


« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2015, 09:25:36 pm »

I can't imagine you need to take the inlet off. Start it up again & be prepared if it runs away. With the vac off the turbo it should start but will be lacking in revs. I know your frustration with the pc, mine take 5mins to startup & another couple to load clip. But then its fine. Fingers firmly crossed for you XXXX
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GrahamT
Jr. Member
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Posts: 46


« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2015, 12:41:09 am »

I agree with Brian, can't see any need to take the inlet off. Or rocker cover.
A compression test would confirm pistons and valves all ok, but its not as straightforward as a petrol car, unfortunately.
Can the fuel pressure be measured, as in the old fashioned way with a pressure gauge?
Does the fuel system need bleeding or priming?
I have seen injectors removed from the engine and with the engine turning over you can see them firing into small jars. Might be worth it to confirm they are injecting?
Persevere with the CLIP thingy.

Other than that, can't think of anything else.
Same here... fingers crossed dude...
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age9000
Full Member
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Posts: 51


« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2015, 09:51:09 pm »

Did not do much testing today as was getting dark by the time I got to the car
and only wanted to try with car outside in case it ran away
Battery does not seem to last very long in the car so could not test for very long
will use a booster next time

engine turns over fine (reads between 220 and 250rpm on the clip)

problem I seem to get is on the pressure in the gallery readings
started out giving a good pressure reading around 300psi
this reading drops quite quickly after stopping cranking
Im sure when I tested a year or so ago the pressure did not drop

the reading in the pressure difference reading was only about 5psi
so think that was ok,

However the pressure readings are now fluctuating to the extent that the rail pressure
can be anything between 5 (FIVE) psi and 196 psi
the pressure difference reading goes from 200 to -1250 (MINUS) !!
these readings change very quickly , you don't get a constant reading and
can go straight from a minus reading to normal reading almost instantly

am wondering is the regulator on the back of the pump or the switch on the high pressure rail is at fault ?
no fuel leaks that I can locate anywhere on low pressure of high side

fuel rate was given at about 55 according to the clip

Im also no longer sure where the bleed valve on the fuel filter should be now as tried in several positions
anyone got a picture of where it should be for normal running ?

Ive also got the EGR valve disconnected as Ive taken it out to clean it
don't think that would stop it from starting though

« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 11:05:04 pm by age9000 » Logged
GrahamT
Jr. Member
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Posts: 46


« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2015, 12:19:08 am »

Think you have to sort the fuel pump out. No idea how though, sorry.
As far as the EGR goes, I'm pretty sure it has to be blocked off. Everything I've read about them (if you're not going to just leave it as is) is centered around blocking them off. They allow gas into the inlet so, it's basically an unmetered air leak. If you can have such a thing on a diesel!!  Huh
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BrianM
Sr. Member
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Posts: 321


« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2015, 04:19:22 pm »

if it is doing this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRENy2yZLto  then nothing to worry about. We decided it was clip/ecu not keeping up. didnt do anything to the running. It was a non starter/cutting out under load. Turned out to be a bad  connection on the crank sensor. Even though it was showing a reading under cranking.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 04:21:24 pm by BrianM » Logged
age9000
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Posts: 51


« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2015, 10:50:13 pm »


cheers guys

Looked at the vid Brian, that's the sort of thing I was getting regarding negative pressure

hmm, getting strange pressure readings in the rail

when first I tried earlier the rail pressure was only 6psi Sad
however I then started to get 310 in the rail, when cranking
does not start so keep cranking and the pressure just goes down and down until it ends up at 9psi
turn off ignition and then it does the same again

so looks like the pressure is not building up for some reason, could be pump with leaky seals
or maybe the valve on the pump. I did energise the valve via the clip and all you can hear is
some high pitched sound coming from the valve, don't know if that normal or not or a sign of a problem

I will take it off tomorrow anyway and see what its like, I have heard these can go faulty
I do have a new low pressure pump here, got it ages ago, so might fit it in case the old
one is not lifting enough fuel

one thing I noticed , I have the pipe from head to EGR removed (the one that takes exhaust to the EGR)
and this does give out some smoke when cranking, so I guess its just unburned fuel ?

The clip shows air temp as 50 degrees C, no way is the air temp that
guess that's the one in the door mirror

One thing the car is doing now is when ignition on, the car after a few seconds displays "OK"
then the time comes up and a couple of seconds later the zig-zag comes up on the display

I really think there is not much stopping the car from starting its just trying to find it !
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BrianM
Sr. Member
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Posts: 321


« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2015, 10:29:55 am »

Its all very strange indeed, but not uncommon! Check the pdf for the fuel filter so that you get the air bleed the right way. You should be able to hear the fuel pumping around the pipes & any air. Don't suppose you knocked the fuel cut-off switch by any chance? Will it run on easy start?
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age9000
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Posts: 51


« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2015, 10:43:50 am »

was thinking the zig-zag might be because I disconnected the vacuum pipe from the turbo actuator
and also as I took the intercooler off for cleaning I also took the pipes off to clean as well
so the pressure sensor is disconnected (the one in the pipe from intercooler to EGR)

not tired again on easy start, guess that would be a good idea to try again
unless I have another mechanical fault I think its probably fuel related now
just seems a bit strange so much has gone wrong at the same time

might try the old fuel filter as I guess its possible the "new" one could be faulty

hopefully I can spend a bit more time on it today rather than the odd hr here and there
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BrianM
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Posts: 321


« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2015, 12:23:47 pm »

Ment to say, air temp is measured in the maf. Is it connected? The sensor in the mirror (outside temp) only does the dash temperature as far as I'm aware. Reconnect the sensor in the inlet, disconnect the maf. Give it a go with easy start.
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age9000
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Posts: 51


« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2015, 12:52:52 pm »

Cheers Brian

yes MAF disconnected at the moment
will connect inlet sensor and try some easy start later
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age9000
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Posts: 51


« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2015, 08:35:10 pm »

have not tried easy start yet as wanted to put something to you first Smiley

I put my fingers up inside the inlet manifold/rocker cover
and there is a think gunky mess inside, so I think when it pulled any diesel through the intercooler
it has probably brought a load of crap in with it that was in the intercooler

I did fully clean this before I put the car back together, so don't know if it is best to remove and fully clean again
or if the car does start that it will eventually clear it anyway

I know it means reseating the injectors again with new washers and gasket set for the cover
I don't actually mind doing injector washers, Im quite quick at doing them now
helps having the proper injector puller from Renault


I did however take the valve off the back of the HP pump

connected CLIP and told it to activate it, the valve makes two different high pitched "tones" ( in & out ? )
but nothing moves on the valve, though not sure if you are meant to be able to see any movement or not
anyone know ? I would have thought the end of the valve would move in and out , if it does then
this one is jammed solid
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BrianM
Sr. Member
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Posts: 321


« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2015, 11:15:45 am »

If the manifold is bad then the gunk is going to end up clogging the cat! So best clean it out. You should'nt need new injector washers, I just run them on a piece of emery/sand paper. The gasket set should go again also, I doubt the silicon sealant has gone off just yet. I don't know if you will see movement in the solenoid. It is a regulator valve to my knowledge & will have minimal adjustment. I think!
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age9000
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Posts: 51


« Reply #57 on: March 19, 2015, 11:30:18 am »

Cheers Brian

will take the cover off and clean just to be on the safe side

on the valve there are two "o" rings right next to each other a greyish one and a black one
and I thought maybe it should open up between the two to regulate the fuel

but will clean cover and try easy start to see if she tries to run before going down the replacement of the valve

Oh forgot to say last time, reconnected the pressure sensor in the pipe from intercooler to EGR and don't get the zig=zag anymore Smiley
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age9000
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Posts: 51


« Reply #58 on: March 19, 2015, 09:12:34 pm »

ok, this is what I have done today

connected CLIP, crank engine over, rail pressure starts off at a good reading , around the 300 mark
and then drops down and down and down eventually to almost nothing

I did try a couple of squirts of easy start, it does say on the can to spray whilst turning over
but I was on my own so gave a few squirts and then turned over, sadly no joy

because the manifold is now a bit gunky I have now removed this so I can clean it up again

will then put back together and see if any difference if some one squirts the easy start whilst its turned over
though Im not very hopeful that it will start with the easy start

If it wont start on easy start I'm a bit flummoxed, I have checked timing just in case it jumped when it revved
up high, but it all appears to be spot on still


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GrahamT
Jr. Member
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Posts: 46


« Reply #59 on: March 19, 2015, 11:48:03 pm »

Sorry Age, I'm out of my depth now. The only thing I can suggest, if you don't get any luck with it firing up again, is to check the compressions. There are cheap testers on ebay eg http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-COMPRESSION-TESTER-KIT-SET-DIESEL-ENGINES-20-PCS-/371285738704?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item56725ac4d0

I'll keep reading though, with my fingers crossed!! :-)
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