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Author Topic: Jos´old and Jespers new V6.  (Read 28133 times)
testacorsa
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« on: November 22, 2006, 12:31:54 am »

Hello everyone.

I am brand new to this forum, but have been a matra/simca/talbot fan for quite a few years. Very happy to see such a nice page inkluding an active forum for such a rare car in such a small country  Smiley


I just read that Jesper bourght Jos´ Murena V6, which to my knowledge was one of the first to be converted. I could see that It was some time ago, and nothing has been posted about it since. I am very courious to hear how it´s going on with the Danish authoraties  Roll Eyes - can´t be easy - or cheap  Cry

I guess this is mostly a question for Jesper, but anyone who knows about any news, please reply to this post.

Well... That was my first of hopefully many posts in here.


James bond: "That´s a sweet little nothing you´re almost wearing"
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2006, 09:28:48 am »

He Testacorsa! welcome aboard with the friendly Matraciens Wink

The new rules on registrations say that if a car is registered in another EU country, then it should be accepted in Denmark as-is. My own experience with this is with my Murena 2.2 prep 142 which has been running in England for 20 years until I imported it here in August. My car is a 1982 where noise emissions state a max of 82 dB, but as the car has been running in the UK it had to be accepted as it was and was measured to a noise level of 90 dB. This is now the limit of my car, despite the fact that it is outside the limits.

This is also the reason why, if you want to build a kit car here in Denmark, you ship it to UK to have it registered there, and then import it back.

- Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
krede
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« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2006, 09:34:31 am »

Quote
This is also the reason why, if you want to build a kit car here in Denmark, you ship it to UK to have it registered there, and then import it back.
...witch is the reason who so few people build kit's in DK..

I think we are all waiting to hear news about Jespers v6
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2006, 02:47:20 pm »

if a car is registered in another EU country, then it should be accepted in Denmark as-is.
Yes, and that is SUCH an improvement from the old days, where you simply couldn't build a kit-car. The only ones really possible were converted VW Beetles, under the Buggy regulation. And frankly, how many really want to drive a "Lamborghini Countach" with a VW1300 engine in the boot ?  (well, apparently one - there is a white one here in my town!)


This is now the limit of my car, despite the fact that it is outside the limits.
- hey Mr "Anders Limitless"  - To art there must be no limit. :-)

I wonder how much noise the V6 makes, since there is only room for one silencer of sorts.

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
krede
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« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2006, 04:23:35 pm »

If i were to build a kit car........
I would build one with a strong and stiff metal chassis...for good handeling and safety... I would galvanize it so i wouldnt have to worry about rust...
On top of the chassis i would put fiberglass panels.. to make an excotic and exciting car.. I would of cause give it pop-up headlights.
For the engine and suspention I would use parts from other cars that are common and inexpensive, but still able to give a nice and sporty feeling in the car.

Hmmm I wonder what kind of car i would end up with....
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2006, 04:40:42 pm »

Hmmm I wonder what kind of car i would end up with....

heh - I gather most of us feel that way :-)

Actually, that would be a valid reply to my new challenge:
   http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php?topic=316.0
Building a "new" Murena from scratch.
I don't have the tools/skills/guts, so that option is not for me.

Some actually do this. I was once contacted by a guy in Holland who had all the parts needed... some 6000 parts (!). That was a few years ago, so either he is still assembling, or he has put the project on hold.

I know that Roy Gillard (MECUK "president") has a similar plan, - he has a new chassis, and wants to build a new Murena from an old one - remaking all the dodgy parts into GOOD parts. And to install aircon, and ... and...  THAT is going to be a stunning car.

/Lennart
« Last Edit: June 24, 2007, 06:27:58 pm by Lennart Sorth » Logged

Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2006, 04:55:02 pm »

This is now the limit of my car, despite the fact that it is outside the limits.
- hey Mr "Anders Limitless"  - To art there must be no limit. :-)

Absolutely right! But unfortunately bureaucrats aren't artists.

Quote
Actually, that would be a valid reply to my new challenge:
   http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php?topic=316.0
Building a "new" Murena from scratch.
I don't have the tools/skills/guts, so that option is not for me.

Hey, you can have the dream, do the sketches, write the specification, design various details etc - all only limited by the paper and your imagination! It's excellent fun and probably just as time consuming as having an actual kit car to build!

- Anders
« Last Edit: June 24, 2007, 06:27:14 pm by Lennart Sorth » Logged

'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2006, 05:09:58 pm »

Hey, you can have the dream, do the sketches
Indeed I have, and I also do the sketches etc - but the point is that THEN I wouldn't qualify to give the answer "A new Murena" to the "new car challenge" ( http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php?topic=316.0 )  :-)

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
krede
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« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2006, 05:35:09 pm »

The basic murena construction, is pretty much perfect as it is if you ask me.
I mean.. the galvaniced chassis and fiberglass panels is what most kits should be made up of anyway.. and Murenas are rare enough that you dont want something more "special" as you probably would if you drove.. say a mr2.
So.. one need not build a new car, but should rather just improve on the excisting car.
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testacorsa
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« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2006, 11:18:59 pm »

Interesting what this thread turned into!!!

Thanks for your replies everyone, and especially Anders Dinsen that said:
"The new rules on registrations say that if a car is registered in another EU country, then it should be accepted in Denmark as-is."
- I did not know that, but this openes so many new doors - thanks!!


The really great thing about a rare car like the murena I think, is that it is unique. By that i mean that there is only one murena, and not a a range of models over the years like for instance a toyota corolla. As soon as the new one comes along, the old model looks outdated.
When this is combined with brands like Talbot and Matra - marques from the old days that don´t exist anymore (yes i know - the Renault/Matras, but they are sold as renaults), which makes it even more exotic.
To top it all, a design that is so ground breaking in it´s own time, that it will never be "old". A design that could only come out of a small company, because It is left so much closer to the actual prototype, and not faded and filtered out by "too many chefs".
Did you ever reed a magazine and seeing the new peugeot 206 prototype for instance and think - WOW finally someone dares - but then you see it in the shop a year later and what a diapointment....

Furthermore Matra has racing pedigree, and it was the daring underdog, that fighted and begged the big boss for permission to place a V12, or at least a V6 in the murena  Grin - and that makes us like the them very much....

Thank god for unique cars!!!!

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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2006, 09:46:07 pm »

testacorsa - you are so absolutely right. You mention all the reasons we all drive these great cars. If I had the skills and money, I'd love to own one of each of Matra's roadcars - they are all so unique and ingenious. 

Your comment about the actual car being close to the prototype is something I didn't think of before - but you  are right. Too many chefs and importantly TOO MANY ACCOUNTANTS (to quote Roy4matra :-) ) have blunted so many nice designs for other companies.

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
njesper
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« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2007, 02:39:43 pm »

Dear all,

I feel the need to reply to this post, because someone put my name in the header  Wink

Regarding the v6, there's the bad and the good news.
Today, I was on my bicycle cycling along in the rain, to meet up with a wonderful mechanic, specialized in alfa Romeo etc. The bad news was, that for some unknown reason, the beautiful v6 engine had melted two pistons, and cuased major havok to the rest of the engine-block.

SO... Jos' engine is "no more". Sad to say, especially, because I took good care of treating that engine nicely. I still had not got it on danish license-plates, so there was absolutely no reason for stressing the engine inbetween the minor restorations that I have done on the car (especially electrical problems.. common), before it was set to be tested and approved.

Well, the good news is, that it seams that my mechanic can get hold of another v6, that then needs to be checked thoroughly before being put back into the car. Remember it is not cheap to get that engine out and back in again.
And since I'm not a millionaire, I need to find the right balance in this project.

Sadly, we will soon hit summer-vacation times, so it might take a month or 1,5 before the Matra-Murena-Jos-edition will hit the road for real. But me and my pregnant wife both hope to get it done, before next matra meeting. We are looking forward to meeting you all, and arrive in cool style.  Cool

I'll let you all know how things are progressing.

Best

Jesper (soon to be yet another master of patience aka. sportscar enthusiast)  Grin
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krede
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2007, 05:28:56 pm »

Before you invest in a new engine, you should check with the authorities , that it in fact IS possible to get a v6 Murena on Danish license plates!!.
The rules changed last fall, meaning that it is not enough that a car has been approved in another country (tüv etc), to get it approved in DK.
The rule now is, that if you increase the engine output more the 20% from standard (you can use the 142 hp "s"  for this) you will need the manufactures documentation that the chassis/brakes etc is up for it.... Undecided
....
......   
Yes!! it sucks!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2007, 05:30:28 pm by krede » Logged
njesper
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2007, 11:32:51 am »

...that it in fact IS possible to get a v6 Murena on Danish license plates!!...

Dear Krede,

Thank you for your interest in this matter.
It has been my intention from the beginning, to try getting this car on danish license plates with the v6-engine.  Cool Otherwise I would not have bought it in the first place.
So I have been aware of this risc from the beginning.

It also means, if I cannot get the car registered in DK, I will have to sell it again.  Cry

I have been in contact with the authorities, and from what we have uncovered until now, regarding rules and regulations, it seems 85% possible to make this car register with the v6 in DK. But it is not just something that you just do.
We have matched the different approvals from the netherland papers with the new Danish regulations (DK now follows a new EU-standardized documentation form, released in the fall, as you mentioned), and found that the car needs to be tested for top speed, and brake-fading issues. All other aspects should still be covered by the papers from NL.

So the reason why I say 85% chance and not 100%, is that you never know what can come up in the next step of the process, but I reckon that there is a fair chance of getting the car registered.  Lips Sealed

But as I said before, I am doing a bit of a gamble. But who would not want to hear a Murena with a v6 roaring in the streets of Denmark?? (well, I guess people, not into sportscars.. but you can never satisfy everyone can you?  Grin)

Best regards,

Jesper
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krede
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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2007, 03:50:20 pm »

Cheers Jesper.. And thank you for the update... I am sure I am not the only one with an interest in how your "project" comes along.

Though I am (obviously) turning green from envy by the thought your v6 on Danish license plates Smiley , this is not the reason I keep yelling about the Danish regulations every chance I get... It is simply that I know a lot of guys that has been "caught" by the new legislations and now have project cars that they have spent loads of time and money on, that they have to abandon since they will never  be able to drive them legally on the roads...
BUT! it sounds like you have the rules covered so THUMBS UP from here!! and.. will you please put me on the top of the list, of people you are gonna have to take for a drive as soon as it gets done??!!
(HA!! Anders!! beat you too it! Tongue )

A more selfish reason why i really, really DO! want you to succeed in getting your car on the road, is, that if (or.. lets just assume the best and say WHEN Smiley ) you get the paperwork sorted, all of us, who wants to up the power of our murenas, will have a much easier time getting OUR cars approved afterwards... we can simply copy your brake setup and other specifications , and we are good to go!!.. Smiley
Finally... it will, of cause , be nice to know, that, IF!! one day one had the money... it would be possible to make that v6 conversion myself... I'm not a big fan of Italian "engeneering" (apart from the Italian girls Wink )..
...
...
... But look how pretty Cheesy


« Last Edit: June 26, 2007, 03:52:52 pm by krede » Logged
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