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Author Topic: EGR valve - 2.2dCi  (Read 72345 times)
2001dci
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« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2007, 11:55:07 pm »

Cheers guys for your help, great site!

I've also had a problem with the EGR, found with the help of this site. The fault presented itself as bad turbo lag, very slow spooling up then the normal surge of torqe. It had been comming and going for over a year, recently we had the fault light and the turbo lag was permanent. Managed to remove the egr lalve assembly, after undoing the 3 bolts the solenoid / valve slides out - it was carbonised very badly with one port almost completley blocked. Quick clean with a scredriver and refitted. Result, a turbo that spins up nice and early (missed badly, when this engines off boost its gutless) as normal.
John
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froggy
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« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2007, 11:04:21 pm »

Just want to say thank you to Martin and Lenart for the excellent advice you gave me about a month ago.  Cleaning up my EGR valve was an easy job with your instructions and photos.  Thank you.

Unfortunately, having cleaned up the valve I set off to my parents house for Christmas with my wife and three children (approx 300 mile journey) and that's when the real problems started!  It died on me in the fast lane of the M5 on the way there (not good when the power steering gets heavy in the fast lane), and again a couple of times over Christmas.  Then on the return journey we did 100 miles, stopped in the services, and then after that I couldn't do more than a couple of hundred yards without it dying.  Finally we ended up getting Green Flag to take us home.
I've had it in the local Renault Dealer for a diagnostic check and I'm told it's a Fuel Injector fault and that as Renault only sell a full set of 4 I'll have to replace the lot - total bill just short of £1000.  Now as we didn't happen to have £1000 sat around (well you don't when you have young children do you?) I took it away to think about it.  Since then I've got to a point where I know when It'll happen and how to avoid it.  It only happens when I reach the third bar on the temperature gauge (it's fine when it's cold), and once I reach that third bar if I drive it really gently it's OK.  As soon as you put your foot down it dies again.
Seems that I'm just going to have to bite the bullet some time and get on with it, but I'll probably get a 2nd opinion from an independent diesel specialist first because I keep reading about people with similar problems who have changed the injectors, then the EGR valve, then the turbo seals, then the fuel pump, etc and not got to the bottom of the problem.

Any advice?
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2002 Espace 2.2DCi The Race
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2007, 09:17:08 am »

Sorry to hear about your problems Sad

Not really any advice but... I agree with you that getting a second opinion is a GOOD THING.

Fingers crossed here!

- Anders
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TheJoker
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2007, 09:58:39 am »

You must get a second opinion. Sorry if I offend some Renault mechanics or garages here, but these guys aren't trained in actually repairing your car, they're trained it changing parts - in other words, they seem to have an idea where the problem is, and then the "enlarge the circle" a bit more to "make sure" the problem goes away with the fix. So if you have a bad exhaust valve, they'll "enlarge the circle" to the cylinder head, and recommend you change it.

No idea of replacing the valve and fixing the problem...  Angry

To me they recommended a new engine and a new turbo because they couldn't place the noise coming from the engine. (So they enlarged to the whole engine!) - Their estimate was £6739 - My repair bill, including new disks, was less than £1300...

Don't let them get you!

And btw, you've already diagnosed part of the problem; only occurrs when it's warm.

Best of luck!
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« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2007, 10:53:58 am »

Mine got an asthma attack a few days ago... blimey does it smoke black when you run it pedal to the metal! Smiley As previous, I think it got caused by me almost stalling the engine (put in 3rd instead of 1st by mistake).

It dislodged itself and has been fine since.  Cool
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roy4matra
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« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2007, 11:23:15 pm »

... and that's when the real problems started!  It died on me in the fast lane of the M5 on the way there (not good when the power steering gets heavy in the fast lane), and again a couple of times over Christmas.  Then on the return journey we did 100 miles, stopped in the services, and then after that I couldn't do more than a couple of hundred yards without it dying.  Finally we ended up getting Green Flag to take us home.

I've had it in the local Renault Dealer for a diagnostic check and I'm told it's a Fuel Injector fault and that as Renault only sell a full set of 4 I'll have to replace the lot - total bill just short of £1000...

... Since then I've got to a point where I know when It'll happen and how to avoid it.  It only happens when I reach the third bar on the temperature gauge (it's fine when it's cold), and once I reach that third bar if I drive it really gently it's OK.  As soon as you put your foot down it dies again.

Seems that I'm just going to have to bite the bullet some time and get on with it, but I'll probably get a 2nd opinion from an independent diesel specialist first because I keep reading about people with similar problems who have changed the injectors, then the EGR valve, then the turbo seals, then the fuel pump, etc and not got to the bottom of the problem.

Any advice?

Yes, don't listen to that dealer!  Change injectors for a temperature related problem!?  What are they doing?!!

In the first place, if it dies when it gets hot, but only if you open the throttle up, and it keeps going if you keep it on a small throttle, it doesn't sound like injectors to me at all.  It sounds more like a faulty sensor or signal.  It's certainly odd, and not one I've come across yet, but common sense tells you a certain amount.  Do you know what fault codes are generated?  I need more information and for something like this would probably need to see the vehicle so that you can see specific diagnostic readings when being tested.  Where about do you live?

Roy
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 06:27:37 pm by roy4matra » Logged

EspaceUser
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« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2007, 08:57:29 pm »

I am having the loss of power option and want to clean my EGR valve, can anyone supply a photo of where it is and how to take it of, and what I should use to clean it

 Mines is a 2002 (02) 2.2 DCI Privilege Undecided

thanks in advance
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Martin Tyas
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« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2007, 12:26:22 pm »

Hi and welcome to the forum.

The EGR valve on a 2.2dCi is reasonably accessible and is located below the air filter housing at the front of the engine. There are 3 bolts and an electrical connector to remove before the EGR can be withdrawn from the housing. I've circled the electrical connector and 2 of the bolts in the attached photo... I'm sure you can guess where the other one is located Roll Eyes

To remove the electrical connector insert a flat bladed screwdriver into the slot arrowed on the photograph and lever it over slightly to the left to release the retainer whilst at the same time pulling up the connector body (not by the wires  Wink). Don't insert the screwdriver too far into the slot otherwise you can't release the retainer... only about 2 to 3mm.

You'll need a 10mm socket or ring spanner to remove the bolts. The valve is quite a tight fit in the housing but will come out by rotating it slightly whilst pulling on the valve body. Don't be tempted to insert a screwdriver or similar between the valve and the housing in order to prise it out as the housing is aluminium and is therefore easily damaged and there is also a reusable steel gasket between the valve and the housing.

Also be careful not to drop the EGR after it's withdrawn from the housing because the starter motor is below that and it could come as a bit of a surprise if you haven't disconnected the battery before working on the car.... the positive terminal on the starter is exposed so the valve can act as an earthing connector and the starter motor therefore unexpectedly engage  Shocked

Here's the messy bit.... I'd get yourself some latex gloves or plenty of old clothes unless you want to be scrubbing your hands clean for days afterwards.  I've attached a photo of an EGR with carbon build up and in this case a piece of carbon that is lodged in one of the two diaphragms preventing it from closing. You will need to scrape off as much of the carbon build-up as possible but try to avoid using sharp or pointed objects in order to avoid the risk of damage. Once you've scrapped off most of the heavy carbon deposits then some WD40 helps to soften, remove and clean any residue. The diaphragms can be carefully pushed up with your finger on the back face and also rotated to allow you to remove carbon from the valve seats. It's also best to remove any carbon build-up from the shaft where it comes out of the solenoid housing... there is a small groove that tends to fill with carbon.

I've also attached a photo of a valve that has been cleaned so you know what the whole thing looks like.
Hope that helps

Martin
« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 03:28:41 pm by Martin Tyas » Logged

1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
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« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2008, 01:23:18 pm »

I just thought that I'd post a link to my EGR Valve clean up.
http://picasaweb.google.com/the.joxor/EspaceEGRValveCleanUp
It was incredibly filthy, and it was incredibly messy to do it. It took me about 1h40min to do it with good tools but bad cleaners. I didn't stress at all. The result is probably about 10bhp more and a much much perkier engine, without any ECU complaints. YAY all round! I highly recommend doing this!

The tools I used included a Halfords small ratchet kit, and the extension bar was perfect length to reach the bolt that is behind the EGR valve. It was an absolute doddle to remove it with these tools.

I must also point out that my turbo is leaking a bit, which probably counts for the wet oil in the pictures. I'm keeping the turbo as it is for now as it might run for ages as it stands, hopefully it won't start pouring the oil into the combustion chamber.  Roll Eyes

Thanks for the excellent information!
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2008, 04:03:33 pm »

That's an excellent piece of photo documentation you have made there!

I must also point out that my turbo is leaking a bit, which probably counts for the wet oil in the pictures. I'm keeping the turbo as it is for now as it might run for ages as it stands, hopefully it won't start pouring the oil into the combustion chamber.  Roll Eyes

There has been a few examples of runaway engines because of this - they generally don't stop until they blow up Sad
Personally I'd start looking for a new turbo...

- Anders
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« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2008, 04:07:39 pm »

There has been a few examples of runaway engines because of this - they generally don't stop until they blow up Sad
Personally I'd start looking for a new turbo...

Thanks, and yes, I'm aware of that, "slight" problem with the turbo-oil-leak. I'm going to get it fixed, just don't know when, and until then, I'll keep my fingers crossed..  Shocked  Embarrassed
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ianP
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« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2008, 08:23:00 pm »

Hi there,

to all of you out there that have had problems with your EGR-valves (of which I think there are one or two  Wink ),  what was the common symptom (if there is a 'common' symptom).   I currently have a a performance problem and rather noisy car.  It's been to a garage today who say theres nothing wrong with the performance (yeh - right  Roll Eyes - but,  for some reason they've change the EGR valve?Huh  as you obviously do when there's nothing wrong with a car!   haven't had the car back yet so have no idea if that's fixed the problem. 

It's been sounding to me over the last couple of days as if there could be a problem with the exhaust blowing, which obviously can have an impact on the performance.  (Anders has also suggested that it could be this).

Do problems with EGR valves usually only noticably affect performance,  or can these problems ever manifest themselves in a rather noisy, car very rough to drive way?

If anybody out there could let me know the symptoms you've experienced with a verified EGR problem, it would be much appreciated... at least it will give me more ammo to shoot the garage with!!!

Thanks Ian.
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Ian Powell

2002 Renault Grand Espace 2.2dci "the Race"

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Martin Tyas
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« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2008, 12:12:21 pm »

You have it exactly right Ian.... why would they change the EGR if there is supposedly nothing wrong with the carís performance? Despite it's size and weight (and I have a Grand) the Espace with a 2.2dCi can be a surprisingly responsive and powerful car when you want/need it to be.

A faulty or badly carboned up EGR most definitely does affect performance. In my experience, other than the engine lacking responsiveness and pulling power there are no hard and fast rules as to the extent of the performance drop because that largely depends upon how far the diaphragms of the EGR are wedged open and therefore how much by-pass you are getting past the partially open valves.

The EGR is mechanically closed (spring pressure) and opened electro-mechanically by the solenoid in the part of the EGR valve that is left outside of the diffuser body (the alloy housing into which the EGR is mounted). What tends to happen is that the diaphragms and valves seats get a build up of carbon over time which prevents them from fully closing.... or.... particles of carbon are dislodged from inside the diffuser and get wedged in one of the diaphragm seats holding it open. The extent of the performance/power loss is obviously largely dependent upon how big a particle and therefore how far the valve is wedged open.

Iíve had circumstances when itís occurred when just moving off and been left with barely enough power to get into second gear but Iíve also had an EGR stick on a motorway and it would still happily cruise at 70 mph but come to an incline or try to overtake and there is just nothing there... itís completely gutless.

The common denominator I have found is that when I have had the EGR stick open due to particles of carbon it seems to have always been when the engine has been laboured.... either setting off without giving it enough revs or cruising and then coming to a gradient. In those situations the engine is obviously trying to draw in more air and that seems to be when any carbon build up can become dislodged. Itís a bit like an asthma or panic attack... the harder one tries to breathe the worse the problem becomes.

Sometimes a sticking EGR (if itís a particle wedged as opposed to a general excessive build up of carbon) can be cleared by switching the ignition on and off a few times to energise the solenoid and hope that the particle drops out.... but there is some risk of cooking the glowplugs if you do that too many times in one short stint and leave the ignition on too long each time because the glow plugs are obviously heating up but havenít cooled down much before they are being energised again.
Other methods include running the engine up to the governor limit in low gear for a short burst to try to dislodge the wedged particle and when it first happened to me and I called out the breakdown service the AA man gave the EGR solenoid a wack with a hammer Shocked Roll Eyes.... and if those methods fail then it means getting dirty.
Roy, our resident Renault Trained Engineer who drops by the forum when he has time, understandably advocates not only cleaning or replacing the EGR valve itself but also removing the carbon build-up inside the diffuser into which the EGR is mounted.

Hope that your Espace feels much better when you get it back because if it does then you will enjoy it.

Martin
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 05:39:14 pm by Martin Tyas » Logged

1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
ianP
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« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2008, 08:27:43 pm »

Martin, thanks very much for the reply...  my (well - my cars) symptoms are exactly as you've described them - yes - it will get to 90mph, but it takes an awful lot of noisy pushing to get it there.  Show it a hill and it point blank refuses! makes lots of noise - but that's about it).  I know a lot of people experience quite serious failures (cars cutting out, etc)...  so i should think myself lucky.  It just feels like  a 'sick' car.

I phoned the dealer again today who's still looking into it.  The garage actually 'removed and cleaned' the valve as it was showing up as a fault on the computer...  fully that,  I thought I've taken it out on the weekend and cleaned it up until if was gleamed!  (I must of cleaned up the other EGR  by mistake  Wink )...  but -  apparently the fault has now been cleared after a re-test with the computer.  Could have worked a second time, but I'm not holding my breath!

Anyway, will post back when I get the car back in a day or 2...

Thanks again for your very comprehensive reply

Best regards,
Ian
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Ian Powell

2002 Renault Grand Espace 2.2dci "the Race"

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« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2008, 11:58:59 am »

When my 2.2 dCi is working properly you can feel the turbo pressure kick in. In 2nd gear, low rpms, floor the throttle, and you should have a sudden very noticeable boost. That's the all OK. the more gunk I have in my EGR valve and indeed my diffuser, the flatter that boost feels.

Roy, our resident Renault Trained Engineer who drops by the forum when he has time, understandably advocates not only cleaning or replacing the EGR valve itself but also removing the carbon build-up inside the diffuser into which the EGR is mounted.

Because of the large build up in my EGR and diffuser, I'm now expecting to actively clean out the EGR valve several times, just to get it all out.
If anyone has got any good tips on what solutions to use to clean the goo off, please let me know. I'm thinking of leaving the EGR valve in some Gunk degreaser over night, but if there's something better. Let me know, please! Smiley

PS, just got back from another fantastic trip to Germany - 1000 miles or so. Lovely!
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