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Author Topic: Problem with Espace 3.0 V6 24V (1999)  (Read 21058 times)
José V. Gavilá
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1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


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« on: January 23, 2007, 03:44:02 pm »

Hello!

Well, after almost two years of ownership, my Espace is really sick  Sad

Since I bought it, coolant level tended to go low. As there were no signs of oil in coolant nor the reverse, I thought an small visible leak at the main radiator was the culprit. In fact, in summer 2005, I added some sealant powder to the coolant and it seemed to eliminate the leak. It 'returned' some months ago and I was planning to wait for due cambelt replacement (car has 98.000km) to do all the work same time.

But last Friday I found some kind of foam-looking residue at the inner top of the expansion tank... and it seems to me as oil mixed with coolant Sad (I checked it and water disolves part of it, to leave just oil)

It has never been overheated (at least in my ownership). Are these engines prone to headgasket problems?. Or am I looking at a more expensive problem?. Because a friend with a 3.0 24V Citroen XM had similar sympthoms and ended with a block-damaged engine!

Please, any comment welcomed!

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
SPAIN

http://jvgavila.com
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2007, 10:18:13 pm »

Hi Jose

Great to hear from you again! I remember when you got your car, and I'm really sorry to hear that you have this kind of problems now...

I do not think there are any known problems as such with head gaskets other than what you find in any other car. At least I haven't heard of anything.

But coolant in the oil or oil in the coolant is certainly an indication of problems. Is it only going one way (e.g. only oil to coolant) or both?

I think you will need to get the engine out to check it carefully now anyway - and do the cam belt too. In fact, here in Denmark the instruction is to replace the cam belt every 4 years whether or not it has covered the 120,000 km and since a cam belt is partly made of rubber, I think this instruction makes very good sense.

In other words, get it out and look for the problem.

Your friends experience may not be related to you at all, but this depends on whether his engine is actually the same as yours or the (AFAIK problematic) 90 degrees PRV V6 engine with 24 valve heads. Wikipedia has an article on the XM showing both engines: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citroen_XM#Engines

I really hope it will work out well for you, Jose!

- Anders

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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
José V. Gavilá
Full Member
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Posts: 96


1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2007, 12:16:47 pm »

Hello Anders,

Thanks for your message!

By now, there is ONLY oil in the coolant. Oil by itself is clean of coolant.

Yes, I was going to order a cambelt replacement as I knew it was an 'engine-out' procedure and now it is the right moment. I plan to ask for:

  • Headgasket work
  • Cambelt and cambelt tensioners replacement
  • Water pump replacement
  • Auxiliary belt replacement
  • Radiator replacement (it has an small visible leak and, once engine is out, it should be easy)
  • Complete and detailed coolant circuit cleaning: I have done it by myself in other cars and it has been always a good thing. And now, having mixed coolant and oil, is a must.
  • Autobox oil change and inspection.
  • And, of course, oil, oil filter and air filter replacement.

Any other thing you would do once engine is out?

I know I will need to invest roughly about 3000 Euro  Shocked  but car is otherwise in very good shape and it is now the only vehicle I own capable of transporting all the family (we are 6 members).

Of course, I will keep you updated of the repair.

Best regards,
JOSE
http://jvgavila.com
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
SPAIN

http://jvgavila.com
Anders Dinsen
Administrator
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2007, 01:50:29 pm »

Hi Jose

Spark plugs are included in that service too and are *impossible* to replace without taking the engine out (or at least lowering it). That's not a big problem since they don't wear much, but still.

It's a very good idea to replace the gear box oil!
You will also need to replace the air condition coolant.

Good luck with it!

- Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
José V. Gavilá
Full Member
***
Posts: 96


1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2007, 09:54:44 am »

Hi Anders,

Thanks for your comments. I have noted your additions and will take the Espace today to Renault... I am really afraid of what could be wrong  Cry

*** ANOTHER (UNRELATED?) PROBLEM ***

Well, another problem my Espace has since I got it is that when starting from cold, it does fine. But then, after the 'auto starter' stops working (about a couple minutes later) it usually stalls. If car is running, you notice engine stops but restarts due to car's movement. But if you are on an stop light, it just stops. And then, restarting is very difficult.

Also when car is stopped when engine is hot and then restarted not immediately, it is also difficult.

I would like to know if these sympthoms happen in other V6 24V units or if you have any clue of what could cause that. I am guessing several possibilities: bad idle valve, bad temperature sensor, bad engine ECU  Sad, ...

Thanks and best regards,

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
SPAIN

http://jvgavila.com
Will Falconer
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Posts: 161


« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2007, 10:42:37 am »

Well, another problem my Espace has since I got it is that when starting from cold, it does fine. But then, after the 'auto starter' stops working (about a couple minutes later) it usually stalls. If car is running, you notice engine stops but restarts due to car's movement. But if you are on an stop light, it just stops. And then, restarting is very difficult.

Mine does this too! But I've been ignoring the problem for 4 months now and actually it's gone from stalling every morning to maybe once in two weeks. I think it's either an idle adjustment or a temperature sensor causing the problem. With mine it happens just as the temp gauge goes from one bar to two.

Will
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2007, 10:53:30 am »

Well, another problem my Espace has since I got it is that when starting from cold, it does fine. But then, after the 'auto starter' stops working (about a couple minutes later) it usually stalls. If car is running, you notice engine stops but restarts due to car's movement. But if you are on an stop light, it just stops. And then, restarting is very difficult.

It's the water temperature sensor that's faulty. There's no idle adjustment to make anywhere. It has been a periodic problem for us too! Cool

- Anders
Mine does this too! But I've been ignoring the problem for 4 months now and actually it's gone from stalling every morning to maybe once in two weeks. I think it's either an idle adjustment or a temperature sensor causing the problem. With mine it happens just as the temp gauge goes from one bar to two.

Will
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Will Falconer
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« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2007, 12:30:19 pm »

Thanks again Anders!


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José V. Gavilá
Full Member
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Posts: 96


1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2007, 04:36:52 pm »

Hello Anders,

It's the water temperature sensor that's faulty. There's no idle adjustment to make anywhere. It has been a periodic problem for us too! Cool

Great news!!!. So I was not too far from the truth Wink (I wrote bad idle valve, bad temperature sensor, bad engine ECU, ...)

I have just returned from Renault and have told them to check for that also... I will gave them the 'hint' in case they didn't know.

Regards,

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
SPAIN

http://jvgavila.com
José V. Gavilá
Full Member
***
Posts: 96


1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2007, 04:40:47 pm »

Hello again!

I have still not found a reason to have a problem in my Espace regarding mixing coolant with oil (and NOT the other way)... headgasket gone without overheating is hard to admit for me  Undecided

I have Googled about that and have found that SOME other engines have an OIL COOLER and, when it goes, there is oil in coolant. So, please, do you know if our nice V6 24V engine have such a cooler???

It would be great news if they do  Smiley!

Thanks again for your great help.

Regards,

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
SPAIN

http://jvgavila.com
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2007, 09:31:09 pm »

I'm afraid I will have to disappoint you... there's no oil cooler in our cars Sad

- Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
José V. Gavilá
Full Member
***
Posts: 96


1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


WWW
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2007, 10:28:55 pm »

Hello Anders,

Well, it was a nice possibility  Sad

I should receive first news about my Espace on Friday... I will let you know what they tell me.

Regards,

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
SPAIN

http://jvgavila.com
José V. Gavilá
Full Member
***
Posts: 96


1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


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« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2007, 06:02:49 pm »

Hello!

I am desperately waiting for the call from Renault... nothing at all in 5 days  Huh Huh

I will call them on Monday!

Regards,

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
SPAIN

http://jvgavila.com
José V. Gavilá
Full Member
***
Posts: 96


1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


WWW
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2007, 07:46:00 pm »

Hello!

Well, I have some news... not yet too definitive but well. I have talked with the Renault garage and they have taken out both engine heads and have taken them to the head specialist, to check for internal breaks and surface condition... I have asked the mechanic if he had found anything suspicious and answer has been no. I am afraid of a block problem but let's hope it is just a matter of head gaskets!

I will let you know as soon as I have more information... I keep trembling  Cry

Regards,

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
SPAIN

http://jvgavila.com
Anders Dinsen
Administrator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2822



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« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2007, 06:32:54 am »

Hi José

Fingers are certainly crossed for you here!!

- Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
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