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Author Topic: cleaning the cooling system  (Read 13272 times)
roy4matra
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« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2008, 11:15:05 pm »

... to more easily purge the cooling water circuit it is necessary to raise the arrear of the car

I'm sorry but I disagree - if you look at the angle of the car, any air trapped in the top of the radiator would not be cleared by that angle.  For the air to naturally flow from the top of the radiator along the hoses and pipes down under the car you would have to have the rear so high it would be impossible as the front bodywork would touch the ground long before you achieved the required angle.  Lifting it slightly as in the photo really achieves nothing.

The only quick way to bleed the air out of the top of the radiator is via the small hose that links the top of the radiator back to the header tank.  And since this goes down under the car, and air does not want to go downwards in a fluid, the method is to suck the air back along this hose until air-free coolant flows out.  Then you know there is no air left in the radiator.

If you run the engine after filling the system without getting rid of the air in the radiator, then you will get pockets of air coming through for some time, as it slowly circulates the air back to the header tank, but in the meantime you can get local hot spots that can cause serious damage.  Be warned.

Roy
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2012, 11:56:09 am »

... to more easily purge the cooling water circuit it is necessary to raise the arrear of the car

I'm sorry but I disagree - if you look at the angle of the car, any air trapped in the top of the radiator would not be cleared by that angle.  For the air to naturally flow from the top of the radiator along the hoses and pipes down under the car you would have to have the rear so high it would be impossible as the front bodywork would touch the ground long before you achieved the required angle.  Lifting it slightly as in the photo really achieves nothing.

The only quick way to bleed the air out of the top of the radiator is via the small hose that links the top of the radiator back to the header tank.  And since this goes down under the car, and air does not want to go downwards in a fluid, the method is to suck the air back along this hose until air-free coolant flows out.  Then you know there is no air left in the radiator.

If you run the engine after filling the system without getting rid of the air in the radiator, then you will get pockets of air coming through for some time, as it slowly circulates the air back to the header tank, but in the meantime you can get local hot spots that can cause serious damage.  Be warned.

Roy

Hello Roy, I'm about to fitt a new thermostat and was thinking of purging the air from the cooling system when this is done.
According to your guidelines, one should apply a vacuum to the hose radiator-return-to-header tank(marked 1) to suck any air trapped between the radiator and the point where it goes under the car(and in the top of the radiator. I guess one has to refill the little space there is left in the headertank once fluid is sucked around the system then.
But would it not be easier to open the hose at the top of the radiator, letting all the air escape here, since this is the highest point on this line(until it goes under the car)

But, how about the rest of the system and air trapped in the cooling curcuit going of to the engine(marked 2)?

Also, I do believe that item marked 3 is the temp-sensor to the temp-gauge on the dashboard, but can anybody please tell me what item 4 is...?
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Oetker
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2012, 06:08:27 pm »

3= hose connection to let trapped air out the thermostat.
4= for measuring temperature for the meter inside.

« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 06:10:58 pm by Oetker » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2012, 06:29:57 pm »

Found a supplement where you need to prepare a cap with 1 meter hose and holding it far above the car for filling.



That is how to do it and it takes time.
Of course return hose radiator loose and close the free connection on the expansion bottle

« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 06:35:32 pm by Oetker » Logged

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RazorbackNOR
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« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2012, 12:35:57 pm »

That's some setup... filling the Murena from the second floor...

Looking a little deeper, there is a part that I can't seem to find in the partsbook. It is the small tube indicated between J and E on the PDF. It is also marked where it enters the thermostat housing with a red arrow on the picture.

Does anybody have any idea of its function....?
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« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2012, 03:34:02 pm »

I gues you don't have this picture.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 03:42:42 pm by Oetker » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2012, 05:47:44 pm »

Yes, I do have that one. It was also attached to my post as a PDF.

That was in the workshop manual, but I can't find it in the partsbook... Seems like every other item is on it. I was trying to map up all of the plumbing in the cooling system with the drawings in the partbook for an easier-to-view layout
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« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2012, 06:35:53 pm »

I think you mean part J.
It is a hose narower (don't know the exact name.).

As far as I know there was a modification with trapped air. (correct me if I am wrong).
The force of returning water was to strong in the expantion bottle making air bubbles.
The air started swirling in the system and got trapped in the interior heater making noises there.
As far as I know this was the solution for the problem.
I don't have the supplement about this, but for what I have seen you need to make it yourself, and Simon has
this in stock.


The Renault Clio bottle I use has a sophisticated system in it that deals with the problem.

The same problem was in the 1.6, and that is why later 1.6 bottles are the same as the 2.2
Before they start using this bottles in the 1.6 there was another modification, but that costed some expencive parts.
So later on they switched to the 2.2 bottles





« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 06:46:59 pm by Oetker » Logged

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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2012, 01:02:21 pm »

-----

Hello Roy, I'm about to fitt a new thermostat and was thinking of purging the air from the cooling system when this is done.
According to your guidelines, one should apply a vacuum to the hose radiator-return-to-header tank(marked 1) to suck any air trapped between the radiator and the point where it goes under the car(and in the top of the radiator. I guess one has to refill the little space there is left in the headertank once fluid is sucked around the system then.
But would it not be easier to open the hose at the top of the radiator, letting all the air escape here, since this is the highest point on this line(until it goes under the car)

But, how about the rest of the system and air trapped in the cooling curcuit going of to the engine(marked 2)?

Also, I do believe that item marked 3 is the temp-sensor to the temp-gauge on the dashboard, but can anybody please tell me what item 4 is...?


Since the small hose, from the top of the radiator, is connected to the bottom of the expansion tank, it is rather bothersome to disconnect it and suck the air out, while trying to keep the coolant from running out of the tank. Therefore I installed a "T" piece in the hose and have a length of tubing that is normally plugged at the end. When I want to remove air, I insert that tube into a half-filled bottle so it is under the surface. When I then apply vacuum to the bottle I can see when no more air is coming out. The radiator is then full of coolant. I also remove the screw on the hose by the thermostat and apply vacuum until no more air comes out. This is a bit more messy as I use a larger clear hose that fits over the opening and coolant will leak out around it. But you can see when the bubbles stop. After this I run the engine for a while and try again to make sure no more air is coming out. Works for me, your results may differ  Wink
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« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2012, 09:03:04 am »

Should I be worried....?

Well, there are several reasons why I ask... and it has to do with the cooling system. The previous ower(bhavers) has replaced the waterpump, and to my knowledge and with help from Roy also removed any excess air in the system.

The first reason for asking is when I run the engine, I do not se any water flowing back to the headertank.... I do not want to let the engiine run to long if it doesn't have sufficent cooling. (the watertemp probe is faulty, hasn't been replaced yet)

The second reason for asking is a bit more disturbing, and a bit more graphical. Sensitive viewers may want to look away... I was going to check the thermostat, and opened the thermostat housing. Seeing this color of the cooing liquid makes me RATHER uneasy.... All the fluid has the same color...  Shocked


Guess a change of cooling liquid, and a long flush with the waterhose is next on the to-do list. Also at the same time I checked the thermostat, boiled some water, letting it cool of a couple of minutes and submerged the thermostat. Although I didn't check the excactly temp when it opened, at least it showed that it did open, so I concluded with that the thermostat is fine as it is.

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« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2012, 12:48:54 pm »

Also, if anybody is interested, or has any questions, I have just made this fast scheme of the pipings of the cooling and heating hoses on the car. Can be exported to any 3d-format for better -self-viewing if needed.



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Oetker
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« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2012, 08:26:36 am »

Nice work,
I save the drawing forr educational purpose.
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
RazorbackNOR
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Posts: 494



« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2012, 01:18:22 pm »

Why the hell is there so much rust in the cooling system, and would I need some more inhibitor other then what is in the regular cooling fluid?
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2012, 08:41:18 am »

Why the hell is there so much rust in the cooling system, and would I need some more inhibitor other then what is in the regular cooling fluid?

Well, if you check out my post on cooling pipes here:

http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1643.15.html

you will see one reason the fluid is rusty. The pipes were paper-thin at the point where the straps held them in place, and they finally blew out. Stainless is the way to go.  Grin
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Matranaut par excellence Cool
RazorbackNOR
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« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2012, 03:16:19 pm »

Why the hell is there so much rust in the cooling system, and would I need some more inhibitor other then what is in the regular cooling fluid?

Well, if you check out my post on cooling pipes here:

http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1643.15.html

you will see one reason the fluid is rusty. The pipes were paper-thin at the point where the straps held them in place, and they finally blew out. Stainless is the way to go.  Grin

Damn Shocked
I hope mine don't blow.... Just checked, and was a pretty steep price for all the tubes needed to be changed.. total of 370€=2800NOK  Cry
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