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Author Topic: cleaning the cooling system  (Read 13527 times)
njesper
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« on: November 12, 2007, 10:00:55 pm »

Hi dudes,

I would like to clean the cooling system in my 2.2, but I don't know, what cleaning fluids will work, without harming any of the different metals/materials in the enclosed system.

Yes, I have sinned! Cry  I have used normal tap water sometimes for topping up the cooling system, and I guess this also means a lot of calcium in the system.

But before flushing the emptied system with a gardenhose, should I use any solvent??

Best
Jesper
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phil75
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2007, 08:54:25 am »

hello

http://www.ecotec.fr/

ref : 1031 (cleaning circuit)

after draining in the new liquid of cooling :
ref : 1032 (additive anti-corrosive protection)

Philippe
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- Philippe -
Matra Murena 2.2 1983 engine 20000 km
Yamaha R1 2004  9000 km (engine)
VW Golf II 1.8 1990 209000 km
Rover 111 1994 155000 km
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2007, 10:07:35 am »

Yes, I have sinned! Cry 

I respect people who sin in public! Cheesy

But I'd be more worried for your need to top up the cooling system since it indicates a leak. And since the leak is most likely in a place in the system with high pressure, i.e. near the engine, the leak means that the "pressure boiler" in the cylinder head isn't working well and you can get lots of local boiling there - and thereby very ineffective cooling. *Very* hot spots. That can kill the head in the long run, so it's good you have fixed the leak.

It's okay to top up the system once or even twice after draining it and refilling it, but no more than that.

I can't think a bit of alcium in the system will hurt much - it may even add a bit corrosion protection Wink A cooling system is closed, unlike your house tap water system, where fresh amounts of minerals are added all the time. Once the minerals have been deposited somewhere in the system, it's gone from the water.

Will sells an additive called Water Wetter which I think is a good choise. It is designed to reduce localised boiling by reducing the surface tension of the water (it's probably just made of plain soap!).

http://www.matramagic.co.uk/product.php?productid=16405

- Anders Cool
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 10:16:54 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
njesper
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2007, 12:20:59 pm »

Super.. thanks guys..

Well, I don't think that there is a leak. But I might be wrong of course. The boiling only happens in the expansion-box, when I turn of the engine (i.e. "heat soak", as you have mentioned Anders  Cool), after I have fought around with parallel parking my precious in the basement, inbetween two big suv's. And I know the fan is working, and turning on, at the right time. I have changed the thermostat. Anyways, I would like to make sure first of all, that the flow of the cooling system is good. But I will check next time again, by having a look under the car, when the engine is still running, to see if it sheds the water from the expansion container. I'm quite sure, that it first starts shedding water, when I cut the engine. But let's see.

Best,
Jesper
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2007, 12:54:14 pm »

I'm quite sure, that it first starts shedding water, when I cut the engine. But let's see.

Yes, heat soak it is, but if it boils regularly after shutting the ignition off, I think you do have a problem. I would check the water pump area very carefully for traces of coolant. A coolant leak can be very hard to detect, but leaks around there are the worst - and most likely, unfortunately.

I have also seen my Murena go very hot in the conditions you describe, and even boil, but I had a leak at the time, so that is why I think you might have too.

- Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
njesper
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2007, 02:15:23 pm »

Thanks Anders,

1. So what would be the best way to check for a leak? Going to a diy-garage and investigate it underneath with the engine running?

2. Furthermore, What if it is the pump... Is it easy to repair/buy/install? (no I think I know the answer..... but I am right now hoping for an answer like: hey that's just as easy as cleaning the vaccum-relay for the headlights  Grin)

Best regards,
Jesper
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2007, 03:10:34 pm »

Thanks Anders,

1. So what would be the best way to check for a leak? Going to a diy-garage and investigate it underneath with the engine running?

The good thing about coolant is that it doesn't vaporise easily, so on a dry road, the marks will stay for several days. So you could take the car for a good spin to get it well warmed up, and then leave it running for 10-15 minutes on the road, and then you should be able to see whether it's dripping or not.

At one occasion while trying to spot my proble, I caught this spectacular photo: http://gallery.dinsen.net/v/Murena/DSCF0027s.jpg.html

But before I got that far, I went under the car with as much light as I could and started looking for traces of water on the engine. It's difficult to see, however - there will always be dirty up there, and a few small oil leaks are also quite common in that area (e.g. the fuel pumps often leaks a little through its breather hole or gasket), and water has a tendency to stick to the metal and hide itself - as it's transparant it can be very difficult to spot!

But the point is that the car doesn't need to be running to show the problem, and besides you don't want to poke around up there with the machine ready to pull your hair or hands off you!  Shocked

Quote
2. Furthermore, What if it is the pump... Is it easy to repair/buy/install? (no I think I know the answer..... but I am right now hoping for an answer like: hey that's just as easy as cleaning the vaccum-relay for the headlights  Grin)

Hehe, ask Björn-Anders... buying is much easier than fitting it, but I haven't been through the procedure yet. Look in the danish section below for a recent experience.

- Anders
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'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
roy4matra
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2007, 12:21:21 am »

Hehe, ask Björn-Anders... buying is much easier than fitting it, but I haven't been through the procedure yet. Look in the danish section below for a recent experience.

- Anders

Actually they are not that bad Anders.  Björn-Anders contacted me to ask how it was done as some had said they thought you had to take the engine out!  It's nothing like that, fortunately, and I gave him a run down on the procedure.  He seemed to get it done without problems, so ask him for a copy of the instructions. :-)  The most difficult part is possibly bleeding out all the air after refilling, but if you follow my guidelines, even that is no longer a problem.

Roy
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phil75
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2007, 08:11:17 am »

to more easily purge the cooling water circuit it is necessary to raise the arrear of the car

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- Philippe -
Matra Murena 2.2 1983 engine 20000 km
Yamaha R1 2004  9000 km (engine)
VW Golf II 1.8 1990 209000 km
Rover 111 1994 155000 km
krede
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2007, 01:59:05 pm »

I just take an empty coca cola bottle (funny how i always seem to have one of those at hand)... cut off the bottom of it and place it, neck first , in the filler hole of the coolant header tank, that way raising the water level above the rest of the engine.
Then open up the air bleed screws and start pouring water/antifreeze in the header tank until it starts running from the bleed screws.
Of cause I need to remove some excess coolant from the header afterwards to get the correct level, but that's simple.
 
If I was you, I'd remove the radiator entirely form the car and let it soak for a while in some solvent, to get all the insects and dirt out of it(I find that very hard to do while its still on the car.
And also to flush it thoroughly through.. 
« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 02:05:41 pm by krede » Logged
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2007, 02:36:27 pm »

Actually they are not that bad Anders.  Björn-Anders contacted me to ask how it was done as some had said they thought you had to take the engine out!  It's nothing like that, fortunately, and I gave him a run down on the procedure.  He seemed to get it done without problems, so ask him for a copy of the instructions. :-)  The most difficult part is possibly bleeding out all the air after refilling, but if you follow my guidelines, even that is no longer a problem.

Roy

I know it went well for Björn-Anders, you are right, Roy - it doesn't have to be that bad.

I haven't found bleeding that difficult if the instructions in the manual are followed (to get the air out the radiator). It's something people talk about, but it isn't that difficult if you just follow the procedure.

- Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
phil75
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2007, 10:47:01 am »


I haven't found bleeding that difficult if the instructions in the manual are followed (to get the air out the radiator). It's something people talk about, but it isn't that difficult if you just follow the procedure.

- Anders

+1 it is true but a little faster while raising the arrear
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- Philippe -
Matra Murena 2.2 1983 engine 20000 km
Yamaha R1 2004  9000 km (engine)
VW Golf II 1.8 1990 209000 km
Rover 111 1994 155000 km
Jacobosterlindh
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2007, 06:13:48 pm »

You can perfectely clean the coolersystem with lemonacid, buy it in your grocery store.
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valross
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2007, 07:17:26 pm »

You can perfectely clean the coolersystem with lemonacid, buy it in your grocery store.

lemonacid = citric acid Smiley
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Jacobosterlindh
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« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2007, 04:58:29 pm »

You can perfectely clean the coolersystem with lemonacid, buy it in your grocery store.

lemonacid = citric acid Smiley

 Grin you'r the man.. hah...
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