MatraSport Forum

Each model => Murena => Topic started by: TELBOY on September 15, 2015, 07:27:04 pm



Title: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 15, 2015, 07:27:04 pm
Hi all, Not sure if anyone can help but worth a go......am restoring a Murena previously converted to Pug 1.9. On removing the right hand swing arm to replace gaiters and refurbish the driveshaft fell out from the engine side. The tripod shows signs of burning caused by split gaiter and no grease. The tripod was removed as was only held on by a circlip and the drive shaft appears to be Pug inner Matra outer. Where am I likely to fine the engine number as the one listed on the V5 states 6704 which is the same last 4 digits as the chassis number. I presume that these are obtainable but I need the engine number!

Thanks. Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Bart_Maztra on September 15, 2015, 10:11:55 pm
I thought the engine code is XU9JAZ and the gearbox code is BE3


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 16, 2015, 08:57:25 am
Thanks for the reply B-M. Now I have that I can try to source a tripod.

Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 17, 2015, 04:15:38 pm
Rear end fender removal and restoration


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 18, 2015, 08:08:43 pm
Bad day, took the first swing arm to garage who said that it would never pass an MOT even when repaired. Had to remove one from Donna! Fortunatly this seems in very good condition with only surface rust and a little bolt drilled into it! Looks like it has previously been injected with oil! Now if only I could remove the swing arm bushes!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on September 18, 2015, 11:09:20 pm
Removing swingarm bushes is in most cases killing them.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rHAMWkmBNWw/T2mXuL6lCjI/AAAAAAAABJ4/iSp1HsU7c1E/s800/P1010268.JPG)
Drilling hacking is al you need.
They are still for sale at the dealers for reasonable price.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 19, 2015, 09:08:22 am
was afraid of damaging swing arm. New bushes already received from "Simons" Note bolt! presumably to add oil.
Thanks Herman
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: GP on September 19, 2015, 09:45:11 am
This hydraulic press or something similar (I have a 10 Ton version) will be a good investment:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-6-Ton-Tonne-Heavy-Duty-Hydraulic-Workshop-Garage-Shop-Floor-Standing-Press-/380375240208?hash=item5890218e10

Costs less than an hours labour in my local U.K. garages and has paid for itself many times over with my Matra.



Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on September 19, 2015, 10:05:20 am
We have the same press but it is not strong enough to do most things on a Murena.
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1480/p1000972medium.jpg)
Air press 8 ton is better but you need it incidental so better look for someone that have one.
Even so I never managed to get the rusted swingarm bushes out with a press.
It always ended in drilling hacking

If you fill oil it is best rust prevention but sometimes it start leaking ad bad weldings.
Then you can use the bolt for waxoil treatment.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2YVz7J_CPbs/VW8e4e1O2sI/AAAAAAAAGds/umBpBji3B1A/s800/P1080051%252520%252528Custom%252529.JPG)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Jon Weywadt on September 20, 2015, 01:34:07 pm
was afraid of damaging swing arm. New bushes already received from "Simons" Note bolt! presumably to add oil.
Thanks Herman
Tel
Once you have the arm in the press and apply pressure, I would heat the outer shell around the bushes. The slight expansion should let the bushes be pressed out. The heat will transfer quickly to the bushes too, so pressure must already be applied. Once they start moving it should be no problem getting them all the way out. Else let them cool and do the heating again.
Good luck.
Jon


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 20, 2015, 02:25:34 pm
Cheers Jon,
Bushes removed on number one swing arm! What other car owners can say they spent the weekend doing an oil change on there swing arms???!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 20, 2015, 07:08:30 pm
A good days work.. happy again!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on September 20, 2015, 07:58:15 pm
One advice,
Fill the opening below the shockers with kit to keep the water away.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-pe4XyOzN8o4/T2mYBTrfyCI/AAAAAAAABLs/6qi8OC479KM/s800/P1010287.JPG)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 20, 2015, 09:44:29 pm
Just looked at mine Herman, Its different from yours! if you look at the photos mine is open along the side, so the oil will drain away. Shall I put some weld in it to make it like a shallow pool?


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on September 21, 2015, 09:25:22 am
Mud and dirt will gather there, making it a excelent spot for rust.
Ofcourse with good rustprevention and keeping it clean it will not be a problem.

Herman


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on November 12, 2015, 04:00:32 pm
As its a lovely November day and for a change I am not working my son and I (along with Matra Cat GB) decided to continue fitting new brake pipes:-


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on January 20, 2016, 03:23:20 pm
Some work completed at the front:-


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on January 20, 2016, 03:26:06 pm
lots to do!:-


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on January 20, 2016, 03:29:56 pm
front almost done!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on January 20, 2016, 07:37:45 pm
Always nice to see the fun people have working on there Matra's.
These are nice cars to have for hobby.
Litlle rust and in most cases easy to work on.
Also cats like it sleeping in the seats and running around you when you busy.
They watch if you use original parts.
And  if it's something else he let me know.
What i this sniff sniff
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AaDAyqZI0AM/T2uVDepyfQI/AAAAAAAAB3A/iousyMhDE2w/s640/p1000666medium.jpg)

This is not Matra you fool.
Kill it.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zixuzODc6Cw/T2uVCy2lpmI/AAAAAAAAB28/9BBLhB88mRQ/s640/p1000669medium.jpg)

Keep up the good work.



Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: GP on January 21, 2016, 07:26:36 pm
Do you want to swap cats. Mine is good for nothing!!!  ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on January 22, 2016, 06:40:40 pm
Do you want to swap cats. Mine is good for nothing!!!  ;D

I have another one that is about the same.
9 kilo lazy cat  ::)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oMw38cKEIzA/VqJoxKUqdVI/AAAAAAAAG8s/gAm5Ei_t5LE/s800-Ic42/sleepycat.JPG)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: GP on January 23, 2016, 02:51:52 pm
Well "Matra Cat GB" it looks like you have hijacked this post!

9kg "Lazy Cat" doesn't look much good for working on Matra's I'm afraid.

Now this one should be pretty useful for swapping engines and changing wheels if you lost the jack though !!! ;D

P.S. It's not mine which is a shame.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on January 25, 2016, 04:44:03 pm
i want fat cat!!!!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on February 05, 2016, 11:41:34 am
Dashboard replaced with the one from Donna and re-trimmed! Now for the door cards!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Jon Weywadt on February 06, 2016, 12:30:56 pm
Dashboard replaced with the one from Donna and re-trimmed! Now for the door cards!
Now for a black steering wheel.  ;)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on February 06, 2016, 02:03:17 pm
got it covered.......Donna has one, may be able to save it!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on February 07, 2016, 11:58:19 am
not too bad maybe a 7 out of 10. May need the professionals at a later date!. Now.... what to do with the 80's speaker hole! Spose I'll have to get some new ones!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on February 08, 2016, 07:21:20 pm
Speaker there, are cut off in high, because your leg is in the way.
Best is to mount nice pair of Pioneer and put some tweeters somewhere.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-s9LLIygRqYc/T2i-lZgzX-I/AAAAAAAAA9M/trcW2cy6LQc/s800/radio3%2520001.jpg)



Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: lewisman on February 08, 2016, 09:39:16 pm
Wee tip for covering things in vinyl.  Stick it in the tumble dryer to get it nice and warm.  Makes it easier to get nice neat corners.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on February 09, 2016, 03:54:22 pm
Great advice......Thanks for the tip... logically that would help make it soft and stretch a little!
Thanks alot.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on March 28, 2016, 08:06:18 pm
So! determined that storm Katie would not stop me from getting on, I decided to finally get around to removing the g/box section of driveshaft, replace oil seals and refurb the driveshaft with the parts I need from the pug 1.9 one I had found!
Only to find that the reason it was sold was the fact that the part I need (the tripod) is almost usless!!!!!
Does anyone know where I can purchase needle bearings of the correct size?????? baring in mind they are from a pug 1.9!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 08, 2016, 11:15:10 am
At long last>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ready to refit. New needle bearings, new rollers, "thrust washers" and circlips! If the other side is as bad will pay a visit to "shaft tech"!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 08, 2016, 05:59:26 pm
Let the rebuild commence!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 09, 2016, 10:45:38 am
Morning all............ Have been scouring the forum to find the size of the brake bleed nipples!  And it appears they are an unusual size!!! does anyone know (apart from Simons) where these can be obtained? Mine don't look too good!
Thanks, Tel.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on April 09, 2016, 11:34:22 am
Morning all............ Have been scouring the forum to find the size of the brake bleed nipples!  And it appears they are an unusual size!!! does anyone know (apart from Simons) where these can be obtained? Mine don't look too good!
Thanks, Tel.
Do you mean the front or the back?  The front have a 7mm thread, which I have seen on other French vehicles.  Try your local Peugeot dealer.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 09, 2016, 11:35:56 am
Thanks Pete......rear!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on April 09, 2016, 04:37:01 pm
The rear nipple in the banjo bolt is the same, 7mm with a 1mm pitch.  The banjo bolt itself is (I think) 11mm x 1.5mm.  As for the nipple in the rear caliper itself, I tried to extract one from a spare to look at it, but it's well and truly corroded in.  You don't need to use that to bleed the brakes anyway.  It looks larger than 7mm.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 10, 2016, 08:59:43 am
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Caliper-Bleed-Screws-Nipples-M7-x-1mm-Pitch-Pack-2-/201542839206?hash=item2eece3aba6:g:kb8AAOSwwpdW6Tzn

Thanks again Pete.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 28, 2016, 01:51:29 pm
So, Where were we?
This little corner:- half new drive shaft the other half refurbed with new tripod. New gearbox oil seal carrier bearing and boots. New copper brake pipes, caliper refurbed, new hand brake cable and not forgetting new bleed nipple!. Swing arm swaped with Donna, treated painted and filled with oil. New wheel bearings new drop link rubbers roll bar rubbers new Swingarm rubbers brake pads shock removed treated and painted. Outer suspension mount cut out and new one welded in, all bare metal treated and painted.......think that's about it!!!!!!!
Before and after!!!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 30, 2016, 07:20:03 pm
Work is continuing on EOW1W......set about removing panels and left hand driveshaft to remove engine from Donna! I needed the swing arm but this is  "U.S"!. I know they are as rare as hens teeth but anyone got a good serviceable one for a 2.2 I could purchase????? I am not hopeful so could anyone tell me what "SIMONS" prices are all about? He lists them for just under 550 euros, but also lists the same part with a "p" next to the number for 120 euros!!!!  with a "deposit" Is this an exchange price? any info on this or anyone with a "spare" or any other place that can supply it would be really appreciated...............also posted in "market place"

Thanks Terry


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 01, 2016, 12:51:33 pm
Next stage, entitled:- Shoud've brought a Porsche, or, repeat steps 1-1742 :-


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 01, 2016, 08:44:55 pm
Lovely day spent working on the car:-
Donna has been getting jealous having not been photographed for some time! Here she is partially stripped as I am removing the engine and need the rear fender, rear valence and the panel that goes just under the boot. She was fitted with the rear Ferrari style rear lights with the after market panel. Gonna have a lovely black and white Murena when its finished!!!!!!   


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: jlg on May 03, 2016, 12:04:07 am

Your old trailing arms look like they are 1.6 ones and the one you have refurbished looks odd to me (like a 1.6 refabrication).  Are you sure you need a 2.2 arm?


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 03, 2016, 02:47:31 pm
Hi JLG,
Think so! The ones on EOW I am refurbishing looked like the 1.6 ones, both are US. the FIRST one I removed from Donna looked like an almost new 2.2 so I removed all traces of rust and painted and filled with oil! the other one on Donna looks like a 1.6 but is also U.S. I presumed  the one that I have used  is a 2.2 (at least looking at all the info I can find on them) so I thought I would just get another 2.2 to keep them the same., I seemed to remember that I could use 2.2 on a 1.6 but not visa versa. (EOW is a 1.9 pug engine)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on May 03, 2016, 05:46:50 pm
The axles for 2.2 and 1.6 have different lenght.
I heared (but not confirmed by me)  that the 1.9 engine needs the 1.6 arms to make more room for the engine.

Regards Herman


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 03, 2016, 08:00:40 pm
I am by no mean an expert, but surely the 1.9 being a bigger engine would benefit from the extra space afforded by the 2.2 arms. I have got home and had a good look. It appears that 3 of the swing arms were from a 1.6 with the right hand one from Donna Looking different and being in excellent condition, I believe from a 2.2. The only way I am assuming this is that (again only from what I have read and not experience) the 1.6 appeared to be two pieces welded together as shown in the photos and the 2.2 appeared to be 4 pieces!   The one I have treated and cleaned came from the 1.6. The other one is the same as the others but came from the 1.9. I hope I am explaining this correctly
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on May 04, 2016, 07:59:14 am
This seems to be the problem.
(http://www.maztra.nl/bestanden/C120.JPG)
(http://www.maztra.nl/bestanden/C240.JPG)
pics Bart Maztra

You better PM Bart Maztra about it.
He did de de conversion before.

Ragards Herman


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 04, 2016, 05:02:26 pm
Hi Oetker,
The top photo shows a 1.6 swing arm, judging by the weld show!
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on May 06, 2016, 12:51:23 am
Hi Oetker,
The top photo shows a 1.6 swing arm, judging by the weld show!
Tel

For the benefit of all Murena owners (I have already called and spoken to Terry as my internet connection is terrible today) but you must be careful with Murena trailing arms.  You cannot just swap between 1.6 and 2.2 as there are important differences.

The original 1.6 trailing arm was made from two pressings (top hat cross-section) welded along the flanges and was easily distinguished from the 2.2 trailing arm which was made from four flat shaped plates welded along the corners to form a box section.  However, now the originals have all gone, the replacement copies are now BOTH made in the manner of the 2.2 arms so initially they look the same, but they are not!  Since the 2.2 has a 260.9 mm diameter rear brake disc the mountings for the rear calipers are further back and if you fit a 2.2 arm on a 1.6 with the smaller 238 mm dia. rear disc, the pads will be half off the disc!  Also since the track is 20 mm wider on a 2.2 the hub is 10mm further out each side, and so requires different drive shafts.  Since the 2.2 rear discs are unique and more expensive, you don't want to be having to buy these for a 1.6 car.

So please take care when doing things like this or even suggesting the wrong information on the forum.  Please check the facts first.  Someone unfamiliar can easily be misled if they don't read all of a post and only see the wrong information and not the correction.  Thank you.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 06, 2016, 10:11:08 am
Many thanks to Roy, Herman and jlg..................after measuring the disc it appears the trailing arm is a 1.6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone got a good one for sale??????


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Gib on May 06, 2016, 11:49:33 am
There is a pair (1.6) on Leboncoin for 300Euro make an offer? They look in good condition and he has a lot of other bits and bobs


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 06, 2016, 04:10:20 pm
did a search gib but couldn't find them!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: GP on May 06, 2016, 04:43:11 pm
did a search gib but couldn't find them!

There is a couple of good looking 1.6  trailing arms on this page. Contact them via e-mail with a little Google Translate message. I have used this site before and paid via PayPal successfully.

https://www.leboncoin.fr/annonces/offres/haute_normandie/occasions/?o=3&q=MATRA+MURENA


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Gib on May 06, 2016, 05:16:20 pm
https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/926415399.htm?ca=11_s



Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 06, 2016, 07:21:43 pm
Got to say a massive thank-you to everyone...have got some good leads on a trailing arm...in the mean time I have removed the engine from Donna! well the boy did (hes smaller and has dainty hands to reach manifold bolts etc...............


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 27, 2016, 06:40:14 pm
Just wondering if anyone has tried this to prevent universal cv boots from slipping off?  Additional retIning clip rivited to can using ultra short rivets!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 27, 2016, 06:44:54 pm
sorry haven't explained that too well! The new universal boot then goes over the riveted retaining clip which forms a lip to prevent it coming off!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: GP on July 28, 2016, 01:11:35 pm
sorry haven't explained that too well! The new universal boot then goes over the riveted retaining clip which forms a lip to prevent it coming off!

Have 2 x Tywraps on mine.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 28, 2016, 01:51:02 pm
maybe I should have tried that! lol


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 28, 2016, 01:58:18 pm
At long last some progress! New swing arm obtained by Roy (Thanks Roy) new bearings new rubbers, drop links, usual drive shaft refurb including all needle bearings checked and cleaned, new tripod retainers, circlips, and boots............havnt got around to replacing brake pipes on this side yet! (unlike the other side they look like they were replaced at some point and don't look bad!) struts removed cleaned and painted, and thankfully unlike Donna could not find any rust on this side :)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on December 07, 2016, 01:39:55 pm
Havn't given an update for some time so thought I'd bring everyone up to date!
EOW now sits hen her own 4 wheels !!!! Work has continued with a little of the interior done. The roof lining has been removed and will soon be ready for re-trimming. The lining was secured by 4 screws at the back but no retainers at the front with just glue around the front and sides. Once removed I removed the carpet material by soaking in boiling water to remove most of the carpet material, then used a hair trimmer to remove the remainder and then using a small blow torch removed any excess material I will include a photo later showing the lining with "most" of the carpet removed! The head liner itself is made from a brittle type of plastic but has "sagged" in places this will be an easy fix as I have some ideas. Fabrication of the "mud guards" on the inner wing area is being undertaken using 0.9mm steel plating. Decided this may be better than using a similar material than was originally used. The plastic sheet under the rear fenders boot area has been replaced using a good quality plastic sheet which was fitted after immersion in the tumble dryer to make it stretch slightly and then secured using an outdoor frame sealent and painted to allow it to shrink thus making a taught fit. 


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on December 07, 2016, 01:53:04 pm
Bottom of photo shows the carpet soaked in boiling water being pulled of,f the centre section shows the lining after having a hair cut, and the top left shows the finished result ready for a re trim!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on January 11, 2017, 04:48:40 pm
Upon inspection it was apparent lining had sagged a little photo shows by how much! so I made two metal braces which were riveted to the outside of the lining to offer support. The lining was then riveted to the braces and the photo also shows the almost flush fit of the rivets which will be hidden by the lining material.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on January 11, 2017, 04:52:03 pm
Fabrication of "fender guards" ready to paint and fit. As can be seen the templates I had removed from the car were not too good!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on March 26, 2017, 04:36:39 pm
floor at last now welded into place!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 23, 2017, 10:23:17 am
A good weeks work! although Matra Cat GB was bored so found a feather!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 23, 2017, 10:31:05 am
A good weeks work! although Matra Cat GB was bored so found a feather!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Lennart Sorth on April 24, 2017, 07:43:09 pm
A good weeks work! although Matra Cat GB was bored so found a feather!

:-)

Very nice work, - I just discovered that my roof lining has the same problem as yours, so
I will be applying your 'fix' as well.
I'm sure they end up sagging when the car is parked outside in the sun (mine never had
a problem while it was parked in a carport)


Keep the reports coming

/Lennart


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 26, 2017, 09:25:46 pm
Think mine just got old and damp! (bit like me)
finished wing and cill


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 07, 2017, 06:21:24 pm
Looks ok in the photos but unfortunately not so good in real life!!! Anyone know how the bottom of the wings should be secured to the cill??


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 07, 2017, 06:28:56 pm
rear wing


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on May 07, 2017, 10:19:59 pm
Looks ok in the photos but unfortunately not so good in real life!!! Anyone know how the bottom of the wings should be secured to the cill??

Yes.  Since you have the 'S' sills on the car, you need special brackets front and rear to fasten the wings.  It is all explained on my website in an FAQ.  The front bracket is riveted first behind the wing and then the bracket is riveted to the car.  The rear bracket simply fastens the rear of the sill to the car, one rivet to the sill, one to the car.  The brackets are shown in the parts manual.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 08, 2017, 01:25:06 pm
Looks ok in the photos but unfortunately not so good in real life!!! Anyone know how the bottom of the wings should be secured to the cill??

Yes.  Since you have the 'S' sills on the car, you need special brackets front and rear to fasten the wings.  It is all explained on my website in an FAQ.  The front bracket is riveted first behind the wing and then the bracket is riveted to the car.  The rear bracket simply fastens the rear of the sill to the car, one rivet to the sill, one to the car.  The brackets are shown in the parts manual.

Roy

Thanks Roy, will check it out.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 08, 2017, 09:23:26 pm
Thanks again Roy, had a look at your FAQ section and believe I understand well enough even though the pictures in "Simons" catalogue arn't particularly clear! I will make some from galvernized sheeting at the weekend.
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 10, 2017, 05:38:54 pm
oh well! suppose I'll have to spray the door as well!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on May 10, 2017, 10:42:04 pm
Thanks again Roy, had a look at your FAQ section and believe I understand well enough even though the pictures in "Simons" catalogue arn't particularly clear! I will make some from galvernized sheeting at the weekend.
Tel

Whilst I have spoken with Terry, I thought I would answer this here for other Murena owners who might be a little confused over this wing and sill bracket fitting.

The original parts manual drawing of the brackets for attaching the 'S' sills and rear spoiler were hopelessly wrong!  And Simon's parts manual is just a copy of that wrong Matra one.  So when you look at it, it will not make any sense.  The front wing bracket for instance, is shown at about 90 degrees to the actual way it fits!  I corrected many of the mistakes in my own copies of the manuals (workshop and parts manuals) many years ago, and I tend to forget that others are still looking at or using the incorrect ones!

If things don't make sense, please ask me and it may be something I can clear up quickly.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 16, 2017, 03:23:47 pm
This is the best right hand wing out of the two I have! it has a small spit on the wheel arch, shown with a 5p piece to gage size! because of the fibreglass fibres it will not line up properly for a good repair so I am thinking of using a small dremell to cut it out up to but not including the wing lip which folds underneath and then use fibre tissue on the back and the glass fibre paste to fill in the whole! Would this be a good way to repair it as I havnt worked with fibreglass too much before? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: JL on May 16, 2017, 09:35:31 pm
I would force the split open slightly and fill the gap with a 2 pack epoxy - Araldite or similar - and wait for it to set and then finish with a filler designed for plastic bumpers, these fillers have good adhesion and are flexible.

Good Luck
john


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 17, 2017, 01:49:09 pm
I would force the split open slightly and fill the gap with a 2 pack epoxy - Araldite or similar - and wait for it to set and then finish with a filler designed for plastic bumpers, these fillers have good adhesion and are flexible.

Good Luck
john

Thanks for the advice John. Will attack it at the weekend.
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: GP on May 17, 2017, 10:53:24 pm
http://www.u-pol.co.uk/documents/datasheets/tds/P40-TDS-EN.pdf

Or after prepping and aralditing as mentioned previously apply Isopon P40 Polyester Filler ensuring all the air bubbles are pressed out, sand down. Finish with stopper if required then a good quality primer filler spray paint.

P.S. It is also a good idea to bridge and reinforce the back area with normal fibre glass sheeting and resin which does not have to look pretty.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 19, 2017, 03:26:08 pm
Thanks GP
 ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 21, 2017, 05:47:59 pm
Thanks for the advice John and GP. Cleaned the crack after prising apart and used two pack epoxy then built up the back using 3 layer of fibreglass, each one getting slightly larger to form an overlap and then filled the crack and pin holes with P40. More than happy with the results :) ::) ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 28, 2017, 01:16:31 pm
so this is the exhaust I have from the 1.6! any ideas how to mate it upto the 1.9 engine? I can make a bracket to secure it to the gearbox but manifold to exhaust "input" will require welding tubes which is probarbly beyond my skills! thinking of flexible and solid lengths joined together but the welding is beyond me so lots of clamps! anyone got any better ideas?


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: JL on May 28, 2017, 10:02:36 pm
To be honest I would not use flexible pipe, if your budget is tight try using these pre formed bends - tack them together and then get someone else to weld them for you if you do not feel confident, alternatively take the car to an exhaust fabricator - probably the best option but expensive.

Good luck
John


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Gib on May 30, 2017, 09:46:07 am
Terry I will try calling you as my brother and I can help with the exhaust fab.

Also I need to talk to you about windscreens as I need one and it may make sense to buy 2 and get them delivered together in fact dependent on the timescale have them both fitted together. I am in no hurry at the moment but can get the car down to my brothers pretty sharpish and there is indoor room for at least 2 cars so no weather issues.

I spoke to uroglass a few months back and was surprised by the fact that not only do they have them they seem to be a bread and butter screen with at least 1 a month being sold, who is buying them?????


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 31, 2017, 08:50:22 pm
hi Gib that would be fantastic.. however my car still doesn't move!!!. If you've lost my number PM me...
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 31, 2017, 08:53:39 pm
always one to experiment thought I would look at "wrapping"  one of the front wings to see how hard it was.....this cost 4 and with very little practice and an assistant think the results could be very good!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 03, 2017, 05:29:42 pm
preparation before wrapping..... top wrapped bottom still waiting


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 04, 2017, 12:53:48 pm
completed door!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 09, 2017, 03:32:49 pm
take it all back....this is hard!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 14, 2017, 02:28:52 pm
one side finished


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 14, 2017, 02:31:27 pm
onto the next side! Sill fitted and the yet another final coat of hemmerite followed by underseal before it all gets covered up! Hopefully will see it right for another 20 years


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 19, 2017, 11:57:32 am
fitting and prepping this rear wing/fender...prep took considerable time due to several small sections of damage, most noticeably the section which tucks under the sill and the rearmost bottom section. I have used the minimum amount of adhesive to secure and the picture shows an old disc weighing down the section I have applied adhesive to. The rest I have used an outdoor sealant to prevent water ingress. I honestly don't know why Matra used so much adhesive when it just wasn't necessary (my opinion).


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 07, 2017, 04:22:45 pm
for once the photos do not do it justice!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 09, 2017, 08:59:03 pm
At long last a functioning clutch and hopefully brakes. The brake pedal is hard but I wont know how effective till MOT time.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Jon Weywadt on July 10, 2017, 12:33:50 pm
Quote from: TELBOY
for once the photos do not do it justice!
Is that fabric you put on the engine compartment? And did you have the side windows out to cut it to fit?
Looks good . :
/Jon


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 10, 2017, 10:10:12 pm
Quote from: TELBOY
for once the photos do not do it justice!
Is that fabric you put on the engine compartment? And did you have the side windows out to cut it to fit?
Looks good . :
/Jon
Hi Jon
Yes, the windows are bonded to the wings so came out when I removed the wings (before removal of the wings). The carpeting I purchased from CAR BUILDER SOLUTIONS. When I removed the old carpeting I did it carefully and was able to use this as a template. I remember reading someone on the forum said it had to be done with the windows removed but in all honesty I think it could be done with them in-situ. I still have to do the inside of the boot and the boot cover. I have also replaced the vinyl along the inside upper at the glass hatch and down the sides. I did however remove the hatch, the strut mounts and the engine cover latches and sanded primed treated them. also replaced the electrical connectors for the heated rear window. As I said earlier it really has come up well and the photos do not really do it justice.
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 10, 2017, 10:22:53 pm
More photos:-


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 25, 2017, 01:36:38 pm
I made the boot cover from 5.5 ply wood which is thicker than the 2.5 Matra used! the underside is covered in vinyl and the top carpeted then a 9-12 edging fitted. I have cut out the holes for the metal supports but if I was doing it again I would just drill a hole with a "knob" through it and a flat piece of metal on the underside. I think this would be much better!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 06, 2017, 04:28:23 pm
Nice sunny day so the work continues. The marks below the registration plate are where I have removed some of the protective coating on the bumper to fit the lamp.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: sc1962 on August 18, 2017, 04:15:36 pm
it looks good.youre doin a fantastic job.always remember " Rome wasn't built in a day" as I always tell er indoors :D :D :D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 31, 2017, 08:44:15 pm
So I finally got around to replacing the electric window motor on the drivers side with the one from a Renault 9! As you may be able to see in the photos the one on the left is the one from a Renault and the right hand one the original. The shaft on the Renault one was longer and a lot less worn which meant I had to remove the grub screw at the end so the new motor would wit correctly and "do up" I placed a little grease in the end and then did the screw up firmly then slackened 1/4 turn so the motor ran freely. If the screw is too tight it prevents the motor from turning and too loose and the shaft is given enough room to move forwards and backwards in the motor which can cause "jamming" or rattling.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on September 02, 2017, 10:10:18 am
So I finally got around to replacing the electric window motor on the drivers side with the one from a Renault 9! As you may be able to see in the photos the one on the left is the one from a Renault and the right hand one the original. The shaft on the Renault one was longer and a lot less worn which meant I had to remove the grub screw at the end so the new motor would wit correctly and "do up" I placed a little grease in the end and then did the screw up firmly then slackened 1/4 turn so the motor ran freely. If the screw is too tight it prevents the motor from turning and too loose and the shaft is given enough room to move forwards and backwards in the motor which can cause "jamming" or rattling.

Note also from the bottom photo the plate across holding the plastic worm wheel housing in place.  On the Murena ones the plastic is only held in place by the alloy body being peened over around the edge.  This often allows the housing to move away and the worm wheel slips and causes the 'Brrrr' noise whilst the window stops moving.  That plate provides a much better secure fixing to stop the motor slipping.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 02, 2017, 06:49:13 pm
So I finally got around to replacing the electric window motor on the drivers side with the one from a Renault 9! As you may be able to see in the photos the one on the left is the one from a Renault and the right hand one the original. The shaft on the Renault one was longer and a lot less worn which meant I had to remove the grub screw at the end so the new motor would wit correctly and "do up" I placed a little grease in the end and then did the screw up firmly then slackened 1/4 turn so the motor ran freely. If the screw is too tight it prevents the motor from turning and too loose and the shaft is given enough room to move forwards and backwards in the motor which can cause "jamming" or rattling.

Note also from the bottom photo the plate across holding the plastic worm wheel housing in place.  On the Murena ones the plastic is only held in place by the alloy body being peened over around the edge.  This often allows the housing to move away and the worm wheel slips and causes the 'Brrrr' noise whilst the window stops moving.  That plate provides a much better secure fixing to stop the motor slipping.



Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 02, 2017, 06:50:58 pm
As she stands!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 26, 2017, 01:10:22 pm
Decided to dismantle clutch master cylinder to replace seals.....cat had other ideas!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 27, 2017, 02:05:45 pm
So lets think about this!!!! Clutch master cylinder repair kit from Simons.....13.9euro +20 euro postage!         Complete NOS clutch master cylinder listed for a Baggy 25 + 4.50 postage (the later version so it fits the baby Murena)...... Absolutly no objection to Simons prices but postage 20euro!!! come on....


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 02, 2017, 01:18:19 pm
Two steps forward, one step back:-
This mornings easy job was replacing brake pipe clips:-
Whist undertaking this simple task I discovered that the fuel tank straps had disappeared, no doubt into a pile of rust somewhere!!!  


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 02, 2017, 04:00:55 pm
Could someone please advise me if I have done this correctly before its too late to change? When I fitted new brake pipe from left to right at the rear last year , I threaded the pipe through 3 gaps in the chassis. However the old pipe was just below this supported just by ty-wraps! Have I done this correctly? The old ty-wraps can still be seen at both ends (only one photo came out) But I drilled and fitted brake clips!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Bart_Maztra on October 03, 2017, 05:50:49 pm
Check which size bore clutch master cylinder you have.  There are 3 bore sizes around.
Make sure the repair kit is the same.
Also when going for a replacement cylinder, make sure the bore is the same.

I had mine cylinder replaced, and found the clutch pedal much harder to press. Turned out the replacement cylinder was bigger than the old one. 
http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1420.msg10726.html#msg10726 (http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1420.msg10726.html#msg10726)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 04, 2017, 09:59:22 am
Thanks for the advice B-M I checked with Roy first (as I always do) Mine is the correct one (19mm) Unfortunatly Roy didn't have any repair kits and I point blank refused to give Simons 67.9 euro for the piston kit (including postage) I found a nice man after searching for 8hrs on the interweb and purchased his entire stock of the same piston kit. They have the same I.D numbers stamped on the pistons and worked out at a third of the price!!! I plan to pass these on to members if there is any interest. I am also paying him a visit today as he says he may have some NOS master cylinders so am taking mine down to compare. Again these work out at less than a third of the price and cheaper than simons repair piston kit!!!! Will keep the forum posted (and the owners mag)
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 04, 2017, 12:59:48 pm
Just got back............well, the casing and mounting points were identical, but, He allowed me to remove the piston and we measured it to find it was 22mm. He showed me a rather oilr and dusty book which listed this part as for a Bagheera and simca 1000..........surely this cant be right? I thought the baggy had the same diameter piston as the Murena 1.6! Anyway photo of mine stripped and ready to clean and fit new piston spring washer and circlip.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 04, 2017, 06:15:42 pm
so puzzling over this all day I went back and purchased one for the hell of it!!!!!! So:- obviously the mounting is identical and all pipe attachments are correct! Therefore being a larger bore it should displace more fluid when activated causing problems at the slave end, correct????
But....as can be seen in the photos the bore of the piston passed the seal is increased so taking up space which would otherwise be full of fluid....therefore the amount of fluid displaced when the clutch is pressed and the piston moved "may" well be equal to the amount of fluid displaced in the smaller cylinder.
Or to put it as archimedes did. an article placed in a liquid will displace its own volume of liquid.
There is a way of testing this but I havnt got the time at the moment!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on October 05, 2017, 11:57:02 am
The volume of fluid displaced is  equal to the area of the piston face (3.142 x radius squared) x piston travel.  The larger volume of fluid displaced will make the clutch action heavier and possibly push the slave beyond the end of it normal travel.  I wouldn't use it.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 05, 2017, 12:42:49 pm
Hi Pete
Your calculation of Pie r sq would be correct if there was no intrusion passed the end of the piston, but, as stated both pistons have a protrusion passed the end of the piston with the 22mm much larger therefore displacing much more fluid. The amount of movement at the slave cylinder would be determined by the volume of fluid displace as we agree but these volumes may be the same. I don't intend using it as I have the 19mm one which now has new piston and seals fitted, but for my own interest I will be filling both with fluid replacing the pistons and seals and checking the volume of fluid both hold
Will let you know the results, but it is really intriguing me.
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on October 05, 2017, 12:59:34 pm
The protrusion doesn't make any a difference to the volume displaced, it simply means you start off with a smaller initial amount, but the displacement is the same.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 05, 2017, 04:06:54 pm
Agreed... Will hang onto it as i got it as an experiment and it has the same mountings.  You never know,  if my slave goes I'll get the matching one. LOL
TEL


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on October 10, 2017, 01:26:44 pm
Agreed... Will hang onto it as i got it as an experiment and it has the same mountings.  You never know,  if my slave goes I'll get the matching one. LOL

You can't Terry.  The 1.6 and 2.2 slave cylinders are totally different.  The 1.6 (or Simca/Bagheera/Rancho etc.) slave cylinders are bolted to the bell housing casing with two 8mm bolts, whilst the 2.2 slave has no flanges where bolts could be fitted.  It is purely cylindrical and slid into a circular casting and held in place with a large circlip.

For information a 1.6 slave has a 25.4mm bore and the 2.2 slave has a 28.6mm bore.

Roy
P.S. I have plenty of these circlips if any 2.2 owners needs one: 1


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 11, 2017, 08:34:37 pm
You will all be pleased to know that the clutch master is now repaired and in perfect operating condition. As EOW is a 1.9 pug engine with the relevant slave cylinder it might be possible if I ever needed to fit a different slave, but all this is really me just thinking out loud, and being reluctant to pay Simons prices (postage) but it does appear that there is no option if I ever need a new master cylinder. but, and I am being seriouse for a change!" as it appears there are plenty of the larger bore cylinders is it possible to press a machined tube into the bore to make it the correct diameter? the holes for the fluid could be drilled ounce in position!!! I had a look ont interweb and it appears that these tubes can be obtained and as a larger diameter bore master cylinder can be found for around 25 it would work out a cheap alternative! again me thinking out loud but as I now have a larger master it is something I will experiment on just for the hell of it.. Advice / ideas more than welcome.