MatraSport Forum

Each model => Murena => Topic started by: TELBOY on September 15, 2015, 07:27:04 pm



Title: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 15, 2015, 07:27:04 pm
Hi all, Not sure if anyone can help but worth a go......am restoring a Murena previously converted to Pug 1.9. On removing the right hand swing arm to replace gaiters and refurbish the driveshaft fell out from the engine side. The tripod shows signs of burning caused by split gaiter and no grease. The tripod was removed as was only held on by a circlip and the drive shaft appears to be Pug inner Matra outer. Where am I likely to fine the engine number as the one listed on the V5 states 6704 which is the same last 4 digits as the chassis number. I presume that these are obtainable but I need the engine number!

Thanks. Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Bart_Maztra on September 15, 2015, 10:11:55 pm
I thought the engine code is XU9JAZ and the gearbox code is BE3


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 16, 2015, 08:57:25 am
Thanks for the reply B-M. Now I have that I can try to source a tripod.

Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 17, 2015, 04:15:38 pm
Rear end fender removal and restoration


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 18, 2015, 08:08:43 pm
Bad day, took the first swing arm to garage who said that it would never pass an MOT even when repaired. Had to remove one from Donna! Fortunatly this seems in very good condition with only surface rust and a little bolt drilled into it! Looks like it has previously been injected with oil! Now if only I could remove the swing arm bushes!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on September 18, 2015, 11:09:20 pm
Removing swingarm bushes is in most cases killing them.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rHAMWkmBNWw/T2mXuL6lCjI/AAAAAAAABJ4/iSp1HsU7c1E/s800/P1010268.JPG)
Drilling hacking is al you need.
They are still for sale at the dealers for reasonable price.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 19, 2015, 09:08:22 am
was afraid of damaging swing arm. New bushes already received from "Simons" Note bolt! presumably to add oil.
Thanks Herman
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: GP on September 19, 2015, 09:45:11 am
This hydraulic press or something similar (I have a 10 Ton version) will be a good investment:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-6-Ton-Tonne-Heavy-Duty-Hydraulic-Workshop-Garage-Shop-Floor-Standing-Press-/380375240208?hash=item5890218e10

Costs less than an hours labour in my local U.K. garages and has paid for itself many times over with my Matra.



Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on September 19, 2015, 10:05:20 am
We have the same press but it is not strong enough to do most things on a Murena.
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1480/p1000972medium.jpg)
Air press 8 ton is better but you need it incidental so better look for someone that have one.
Even so I never managed to get the rusted swingarm bushes out with a press.
It always ended in drilling hacking

If you fill oil it is best rust prevention but sometimes it start leaking ad bad weldings.
Then you can use the bolt for waxoil treatment.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2YVz7J_CPbs/VW8e4e1O2sI/AAAAAAAAGds/umBpBji3B1A/s800/P1080051%252520%252528Custom%252529.JPG)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Jon Weywadt on September 20, 2015, 01:34:07 pm
was afraid of damaging swing arm. New bushes already received from "Simons" Note bolt! presumably to add oil.
Thanks Herman
Tel
Once you have the arm in the press and apply pressure, I would heat the outer shell around the bushes. The slight expansion should let the bushes be pressed out. The heat will transfer quickly to the bushes too, so pressure must already be applied. Once they start moving it should be no problem getting them all the way out. Else let them cool and do the heating again.
Good luck.
Jon


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 20, 2015, 02:25:34 pm
Cheers Jon,
Bushes removed on number one swing arm! What other car owners can say they spent the weekend doing an oil change on there swing arms???!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 20, 2015, 07:08:30 pm
A good days work.. happy again!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on September 20, 2015, 07:58:15 pm
One advice,
Fill the opening below the shockers with kit to keep the water away.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-pe4XyOzN8o4/T2mYBTrfyCI/AAAAAAAABLs/6qi8OC479KM/s800/P1010287.JPG)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 20, 2015, 09:44:29 pm
Just looked at mine Herman, Its different from yours! if you look at the photos mine is open along the side, so the oil will drain away. Shall I put some weld in it to make it like a shallow pool?


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on September 21, 2015, 09:25:22 am
Mud and dirt will gather there, making it a excelent spot for rust.
Ofcourse with good rustprevention and keeping it clean it will not be a problem.

Herman


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on November 12, 2015, 04:00:32 pm
As its a lovely November day and for a change I am not working my son and I (along with Matra Cat GB) decided to continue fitting new brake pipes:-


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on January 20, 2016, 03:23:20 pm
Some work completed at the front:-


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on January 20, 2016, 03:26:06 pm
lots to do!:-


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on January 20, 2016, 03:29:56 pm
front almost done!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on January 20, 2016, 07:37:45 pm
Always nice to see the fun people have working on there Matra's.
These are nice cars to have for hobby.
Litlle rust and in most cases easy to work on.
Also cats like it sleeping in the seats and running around you when you busy.
They watch if you use original parts.
And  if it's something else he let me know.
What i this sniff sniff
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AaDAyqZI0AM/T2uVDepyfQI/AAAAAAAAB3A/iousyMhDE2w/s640/p1000666medium.jpg)

This is not Matra you fool.
Kill it.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zixuzODc6Cw/T2uVCy2lpmI/AAAAAAAAB28/9BBLhB88mRQ/s640/p1000669medium.jpg)

Keep up the good work.



Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: GP on January 21, 2016, 07:26:36 pm
Do you want to swap cats. Mine is good for nothing!!!  ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on January 22, 2016, 06:40:40 pm
Do you want to swap cats. Mine is good for nothing!!!  ;D

I have another one that is about the same.
9 kilo lazy cat  ::)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oMw38cKEIzA/VqJoxKUqdVI/AAAAAAAAG8s/gAm5Ei_t5LE/s800-Ic42/sleepycat.JPG)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: GP on January 23, 2016, 02:51:52 pm
Well "Matra Cat GB" it looks like you have hijacked this post!

9kg "Lazy Cat" doesn't look much good for working on Matra's I'm afraid.

Now this one should be pretty useful for swapping engines and changing wheels if you lost the jack though !!! ;D

P.S. It's not mine which is a shame.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on January 25, 2016, 04:44:03 pm
i want fat cat!!!!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on February 05, 2016, 11:41:34 am
Dashboard replaced with the one from Donna and re-trimmed! Now for the door cards!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Jon Weywadt on February 06, 2016, 12:30:56 pm
Dashboard replaced with the one from Donna and re-trimmed! Now for the door cards!
Now for a black steering wheel.  ;)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on February 06, 2016, 02:03:17 pm
got it covered.......Donna has one, may be able to save it!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on February 07, 2016, 11:58:19 am
not too bad maybe a 7 out of 10. May need the professionals at a later date!. Now.... what to do with the 80's speaker hole! Spose I'll have to get some new ones!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on February 08, 2016, 07:21:20 pm
Speaker there, are cut off in high, because your leg is in the way.
Best is to mount nice pair of Pioneer and put some tweeters somewhere.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-s9LLIygRqYc/T2i-lZgzX-I/AAAAAAAAA9M/trcW2cy6LQc/s800/radio3%2520001.jpg)



Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: lewisman on February 08, 2016, 09:39:16 pm
Wee tip for covering things in vinyl.  Stick it in the tumble dryer to get it nice and warm.  Makes it easier to get nice neat corners.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on February 09, 2016, 03:54:22 pm
Great advice......Thanks for the tip... logically that would help make it soft and stretch a little!
Thanks alot.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on March 28, 2016, 08:06:18 pm
So! determined that storm Katie would not stop me from getting on, I decided to finally get around to removing the g/box section of driveshaft, replace oil seals and refurb the driveshaft with the parts I need from the pug 1.9 one I had found!
Only to find that the reason it was sold was the fact that the part I need (the tripod) is almost usless!!!!!
Does anyone know where I can purchase needle bearings of the correct size?????? baring in mind they are from a pug 1.9!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 08, 2016, 11:15:10 am
At long last>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ready to refit. New needle bearings, new rollers, "thrust washers" and circlips! If the other side is as bad will pay a visit to "shaft tech"!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 08, 2016, 05:59:26 pm
Let the rebuild commence!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 09, 2016, 10:45:38 am
Morning all............ Have been scouring the forum to find the size of the brake bleed nipples!  And it appears they are an unusual size!!! does anyone know (apart from Simons) where these can be obtained? Mine don't look too good!
Thanks, Tel.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on April 09, 2016, 11:34:22 am
Morning all............ Have been scouring the forum to find the size of the brake bleed nipples!  And it appears they are an unusual size!!! does anyone know (apart from Simons) where these can be obtained? Mine don't look too good!
Thanks, Tel.
Do you mean the front or the back?  The front have a 7mm thread, which I have seen on other French vehicles.  Try your local Peugeot dealer.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 09, 2016, 11:35:56 am
Thanks Pete......rear!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on April 09, 2016, 04:37:01 pm
The rear nipple in the banjo bolt is the same, 7mm with a 1mm pitch.  The banjo bolt itself is (I think) 11mm x 1.5mm.  As for the nipple in the rear caliper itself, I tried to extract one from a spare to look at it, but it's well and truly corroded in.  You don't need to use that to bleed the brakes anyway.  It looks larger than 7mm.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 10, 2016, 08:59:43 am
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Caliper-Bleed-Screws-Nipples-M7-x-1mm-Pitch-Pack-2-/201542839206?hash=item2eece3aba6:g:kb8AAOSwwpdW6Tzn

Thanks again Pete.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 28, 2016, 01:51:29 pm
So, Where were we?
This little corner:- half new drive shaft the other half refurbed with new tripod. New gearbox oil seal carrier bearing and boots. New copper brake pipes, caliper refurbed, new hand brake cable and not forgetting new bleed nipple!. Swing arm swaped with Donna, treated painted and filled with oil. New wheel bearings new drop link rubbers roll bar rubbers new Swingarm rubbers brake pads shock removed treated and painted. Outer suspension mount cut out and new one welded in, all bare metal treated and painted.......think that's about it!!!!!!!
Before and after!!!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 30, 2016, 07:20:03 pm
Work is continuing on EOW1W......set about removing panels and left hand driveshaft to remove engine from Donna! I needed the swing arm but this is  "U.S"!. I know they are as rare as hens teeth but anyone got a good serviceable one for a 2.2 I could purchase????? I am not hopeful so could anyone tell me what "SIMONS" prices are all about? He lists them for just under 550 euros, but also lists the same part with a "p" next to the number for 120 euros!!!!  with a "deposit" Is this an exchange price? any info on this or anyone with a "spare" or any other place that can supply it would be really appreciated...............also posted in "market place"

Thanks Terry


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 01, 2016, 12:51:33 pm
Next stage, entitled:- Shoud've brought a Porsche, or, repeat steps 1-1742 :-


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 01, 2016, 08:44:55 pm
Lovely day spent working on the car:-
Donna has been getting jealous having not been photographed for some time! Here she is partially stripped as I am removing the engine and need the rear fender, rear valence and the panel that goes just under the boot. She was fitted with the rear Ferrari style rear lights with the after market panel. Gonna have a lovely black and white Murena when its finished!!!!!!   


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: jlg on May 03, 2016, 12:04:07 am

Your old trailing arms look like they are 1.6 ones and the one you have refurbished looks odd to me (like a 1.6 refabrication).  Are you sure you need a 2.2 arm?


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 03, 2016, 02:47:31 pm
Hi JLG,
Think so! The ones on EOW I am refurbishing looked like the 1.6 ones, both are US. the FIRST one I removed from Donna looked like an almost new 2.2 so I removed all traces of rust and painted and filled with oil! the other one on Donna looks like a 1.6 but is also U.S. I presumed  the one that I have used  is a 2.2 (at least looking at all the info I can find on them) so I thought I would just get another 2.2 to keep them the same., I seemed to remember that I could use 2.2 on a 1.6 but not visa versa. (EOW is a 1.9 pug engine)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on May 03, 2016, 05:46:50 pm
The axles for 2.2 and 1.6 have different lenght.
I heared (but not confirmed by me)  that the 1.9 engine needs the 1.6 arms to make more room for the engine.

Regards Herman


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 03, 2016, 08:00:40 pm
I am by no mean an expert, but surely the 1.9 being a bigger engine would benefit from the extra space afforded by the 2.2 arms. I have got home and had a good look. It appears that 3 of the swing arms were from a 1.6 with the right hand one from Donna Looking different and being in excellent condition, I believe from a 2.2. The only way I am assuming this is that (again only from what I have read and not experience) the 1.6 appeared to be two pieces welded together as shown in the photos and the 2.2 appeared to be 4 pieces!   The one I have treated and cleaned came from the 1.6. The other one is the same as the others but came from the 1.9. I hope I am explaining this correctly
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on May 04, 2016, 07:59:14 am
This seems to be the problem.
(http://www.maztra.nl/bestanden/C120.JPG)
(http://www.maztra.nl/bestanden/C240.JPG)
pics Bart Maztra

You better PM Bart Maztra about it.
He did de de conversion before.

Ragards Herman


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 04, 2016, 05:02:26 pm
Hi Oetker,
The top photo shows a 1.6 swing arm, judging by the weld show!
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on May 06, 2016, 12:51:23 am
Hi Oetker,
The top photo shows a 1.6 swing arm, judging by the weld show!
Tel

For the benefit of all Murena owners (I have already called and spoken to Terry as my internet connection is terrible today) but you must be careful with Murena trailing arms.  You cannot just swap between 1.6 and 2.2 as there are important differences.

The original 1.6 trailing arm was made from two pressings (top hat cross-section) welded along the flanges and was easily distinguished from the 2.2 trailing arm which was made from four flat shaped plates welded along the corners to form a box section.  However, now the originals have all gone, the replacement copies are now BOTH made in the manner of the 2.2 arms so initially they look the same, but they are not!  Since the 2.2 has a 260.9 mm diameter rear brake disc the mountings for the rear calipers are further back and if you fit a 2.2 arm on a 1.6 with the smaller 238 mm dia. rear disc, the pads will be half off the disc!  Also since the track is 20 mm wider on a 2.2 the hub is 10mm further out each side, and so requires different drive shafts.  Since the 2.2 rear discs are unique and more expensive, you don't want to be having to buy these for a 1.6 car.

So please take care when doing things like this or even suggesting the wrong information on the forum.  Please check the facts first.  Someone unfamiliar can easily be misled if they don't read all of a post and only see the wrong information and not the correction.  Thank you.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 06, 2016, 10:11:08 am
Many thanks to Roy, Herman and jlg..................after measuring the disc it appears the trailing arm is a 1.6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone got a good one for sale??????


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Gib on May 06, 2016, 11:49:33 am
There is a pair (1.6) on Leboncoin for 300Euro make an offer? They look in good condition and he has a lot of other bits and bobs


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 06, 2016, 04:10:20 pm
did a search gib but couldn't find them!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: GP on May 06, 2016, 04:43:11 pm
did a search gib but couldn't find them!

There is a couple of good looking 1.6  trailing arms on this page. Contact them via e-mail with a little Google Translate message. I have used this site before and paid via PayPal successfully.

https://www.leboncoin.fr/annonces/offres/haute_normandie/occasions/?o=3&q=MATRA+MURENA


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Gib on May 06, 2016, 05:16:20 pm
https://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/926415399.htm?ca=11_s



Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 06, 2016, 07:21:43 pm
Got to say a massive thank-you to everyone...have got some good leads on a trailing arm...in the mean time I have removed the engine from Donna! well the boy did (hes smaller and has dainty hands to reach manifold bolts etc...............


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 27, 2016, 06:40:14 pm
Just wondering if anyone has tried this to prevent universal cv boots from slipping off?  Additional retIning clip rivited to can using ultra short rivets!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 27, 2016, 06:44:54 pm
sorry haven't explained that too well! The new universal boot then goes over the riveted retaining clip which forms a lip to prevent it coming off!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: GP on July 28, 2016, 01:11:35 pm
sorry haven't explained that too well! The new universal boot then goes over the riveted retaining clip which forms a lip to prevent it coming off!

Have 2 x Tywraps on mine.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 28, 2016, 01:51:02 pm
maybe I should have tried that! lol


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 28, 2016, 01:58:18 pm
At long last some progress! New swing arm obtained by Roy (Thanks Roy) new bearings new rubbers, drop links, usual drive shaft refurb including all needle bearings checked and cleaned, new tripod retainers, circlips, and boots............havnt got around to replacing brake pipes on this side yet! (unlike the other side they look like they were replaced at some point and don't look bad!) struts removed cleaned and painted, and thankfully unlike Donna could not find any rust on this side :)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on December 07, 2016, 01:39:55 pm
Havn't given an update for some time so thought I'd bring everyone up to date!
EOW now sits hen her own 4 wheels !!!! Work has continued with a little of the interior done. The roof lining has been removed and will soon be ready for re-trimming. The lining was secured by 4 screws at the back but no retainers at the front with just glue around the front and sides. Once removed I removed the carpet material by soaking in boiling water to remove most of the carpet material, then used a hair trimmer to remove the remainder and then using a small blow torch removed any excess material I will include a photo later showing the lining with "most" of the carpet removed! The head liner itself is made from a brittle type of plastic but has "sagged" in places this will be an easy fix as I have some ideas. Fabrication of the "mud guards" on the inner wing area is being undertaken using 0.9mm steel plating. Decided this may be better than using a similar material than was originally used. The plastic sheet under the rear fenders boot area has been replaced using a good quality plastic sheet which was fitted after immersion in the tumble dryer to make it stretch slightly and then secured using an outdoor frame sealent and painted to allow it to shrink thus making a taught fit. 


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on December 07, 2016, 01:53:04 pm
Bottom of photo shows the carpet soaked in boiling water being pulled of,f the centre section shows the lining after having a hair cut, and the top left shows the finished result ready for a re trim!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on January 11, 2017, 04:48:40 pm
Upon inspection it was apparent lining had sagged a little photo shows by how much! so I made two metal braces which were riveted to the outside of the lining to offer support. The lining was then riveted to the braces and the photo also shows the almost flush fit of the rivets which will be hidden by the lining material.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on January 11, 2017, 04:52:03 pm
Fabrication of "fender guards" ready to paint and fit. As can be seen the templates I had removed from the car were not too good!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on March 26, 2017, 04:36:39 pm
floor at last now welded into place!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 23, 2017, 10:23:17 am
A good weeks work! although Matra Cat GB was bored so found a feather!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 23, 2017, 10:31:05 am
A good weeks work! although Matra Cat GB was bored so found a feather!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Lennart Sorth on April 24, 2017, 07:43:09 pm
A good weeks work! although Matra Cat GB was bored so found a feather!

:-)

Very nice work, - I just discovered that my roof lining has the same problem as yours, so
I will be applying your 'fix' as well.
I'm sure they end up sagging when the car is parked outside in the sun (mine never had
a problem while it was parked in a carport)


Keep the reports coming

/Lennart


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 26, 2017, 09:25:46 pm
Think mine just got old and damp! (bit like me)
finished wing and cill


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 07, 2017, 06:21:24 pm
Looks ok in the photos but unfortunately not so good in real life!!! Anyone know how the bottom of the wings should be secured to the cill??


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 07, 2017, 06:28:56 pm
rear wing


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on May 07, 2017, 10:19:59 pm
Looks ok in the photos but unfortunately not so good in real life!!! Anyone know how the bottom of the wings should be secured to the cill??

Yes.  Since you have the 'S' sills on the car, you need special brackets front and rear to fasten the wings.  It is all explained on my website in an FAQ.  The front bracket is riveted first behind the wing and then the bracket is riveted to the car.  The rear bracket simply fastens the rear of the sill to the car, one rivet to the sill, one to the car.  The brackets are shown in the parts manual.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 08, 2017, 01:25:06 pm
Looks ok in the photos but unfortunately not so good in real life!!! Anyone know how the bottom of the wings should be secured to the cill??

Yes.  Since you have the 'S' sills on the car, you need special brackets front and rear to fasten the wings.  It is all explained on my website in an FAQ.  The front bracket is riveted first behind the wing and then the bracket is riveted to the car.  The rear bracket simply fastens the rear of the sill to the car, one rivet to the sill, one to the car.  The brackets are shown in the parts manual.

Roy

Thanks Roy, will check it out.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 08, 2017, 09:23:26 pm
Thanks again Roy, had a look at your FAQ section and believe I understand well enough even though the pictures in "Simons" catalogue arn't particularly clear! I will make some from galvernized sheeting at the weekend.
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 10, 2017, 05:38:54 pm
oh well! suppose I'll have to spray the door as well!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on May 10, 2017, 10:42:04 pm
Thanks again Roy, had a look at your FAQ section and believe I understand well enough even though the pictures in "Simons" catalogue arn't particularly clear! I will make some from galvernized sheeting at the weekend.
Tel

Whilst I have spoken with Terry, I thought I would answer this here for other Murena owners who might be a little confused over this wing and sill bracket fitting.

The original parts manual drawing of the brackets for attaching the 'S' sills and rear spoiler were hopelessly wrong!  And Simon's parts manual is just a copy of that wrong Matra one.  So when you look at it, it will not make any sense.  The front wing bracket for instance, is shown at about 90 degrees to the actual way it fits!  I corrected many of the mistakes in my own copies of the manuals (workshop and parts manuals) many years ago, and I tend to forget that others are still looking at or using the incorrect ones!

If things don't make sense, please ask me and it may be something I can clear up quickly.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 16, 2017, 03:23:47 pm
This is the best right hand wing out of the two I have! it has a small spit on the wheel arch, shown with a 5p piece to gage size! because of the fibreglass fibres it will not line up properly for a good repair so I am thinking of using a small dremell to cut it out up to but not including the wing lip which folds underneath and then use fibre tissue on the back and the glass fibre paste to fill in the whole! Would this be a good way to repair it as I havnt worked with fibreglass too much before? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: JL on May 16, 2017, 09:35:31 pm
I would force the split open slightly and fill the gap with a 2 pack epoxy - Araldite or similar - and wait for it to set and then finish with a filler designed for plastic bumpers, these fillers have good adhesion and are flexible.

Good Luck
john


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 17, 2017, 01:49:09 pm
I would force the split open slightly and fill the gap with a 2 pack epoxy - Araldite or similar - and wait for it to set and then finish with a filler designed for plastic bumpers, these fillers have good adhesion and are flexible.

Good Luck
john

Thanks for the advice John. Will attack it at the weekend.
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: GP on May 17, 2017, 10:53:24 pm
http://www.u-pol.co.uk/documents/datasheets/tds/P40-TDS-EN.pdf

Or after prepping and aralditing as mentioned previously apply Isopon P40 Polyester Filler ensuring all the air bubbles are pressed out, sand down. Finish with stopper if required then a good quality primer filler spray paint.

P.S. It is also a good idea to bridge and reinforce the back area with normal fibre glass sheeting and resin which does not have to look pretty.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 19, 2017, 03:26:08 pm
Thanks GP
 ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 21, 2017, 05:47:59 pm
Thanks for the advice John and GP. Cleaned the crack after prising apart and used two pack epoxy then built up the back using 3 layer of fibreglass, each one getting slightly larger to form an overlap and then filled the crack and pin holes with P40. More than happy with the results :) ::) ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 28, 2017, 01:16:31 pm
so this is the exhaust I have from the 1.6! any ideas how to mate it upto the 1.9 engine? I can make a bracket to secure it to the gearbox but manifold to exhaust "input" will require welding tubes which is probarbly beyond my skills! thinking of flexible and solid lengths joined together but the welding is beyond me so lots of clamps! anyone got any better ideas?


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: JL on May 28, 2017, 10:02:36 pm
To be honest I would not use flexible pipe, if your budget is tight try using these pre formed bends - tack them together and then get someone else to weld them for you if you do not feel confident, alternatively take the car to an exhaust fabricator - probably the best option but expensive.

Good luck
John


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Gib on May 30, 2017, 09:46:07 am
Terry I will try calling you as my brother and I can help with the exhaust fab.

Also I need to talk to you about windscreens as I need one and it may make sense to buy 2 and get them delivered together in fact dependent on the timescale have them both fitted together. I am in no hurry at the moment but can get the car down to my brothers pretty sharpish and there is indoor room for at least 2 cars so no weather issues.

I spoke to uroglass a few months back and was surprised by the fact that not only do they have them they seem to be a bread and butter screen with at least 1 a month being sold, who is buying them?????


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 31, 2017, 08:50:22 pm
hi Gib that would be fantastic.. however my car still doesn't move!!!. If you've lost my number PM me...
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 31, 2017, 08:53:39 pm
always one to experiment thought I would look at "wrapping"  one of the front wings to see how hard it was.....this cost 4 and with very little practice and an assistant think the results could be very good!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 03, 2017, 05:29:42 pm
preparation before wrapping..... top wrapped bottom still waiting


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 04, 2017, 12:53:48 pm
completed door!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 09, 2017, 03:32:49 pm
take it all back....this is hard!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 14, 2017, 02:28:52 pm
one side finished


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 14, 2017, 02:31:27 pm
onto the next side! Sill fitted and the yet another final coat of hemmerite followed by underseal before it all gets covered up! Hopefully will see it right for another 20 years


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 19, 2017, 11:57:32 am
fitting and prepping this rear wing/fender...prep took considerable time due to several small sections of damage, most noticeably the section which tucks under the sill and the rearmost bottom section. I have used the minimum amount of adhesive to secure and the picture shows an old disc weighing down the section I have applied adhesive to. The rest I have used an outdoor sealant to prevent water ingress. I honestly don't know why Matra used so much adhesive when it just wasn't necessary (my opinion).


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 07, 2017, 04:22:45 pm
for once the photos do not do it justice!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 09, 2017, 08:59:03 pm
At long last a functioning clutch and hopefully brakes. The brake pedal is hard but I wont know how effective till MOT time.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Jon Weywadt on July 10, 2017, 12:33:50 pm
Quote from: TELBOY
for once the photos do not do it justice!
Is that fabric you put on the engine compartment? And did you have the side windows out to cut it to fit?
Looks good . :
/Jon


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 10, 2017, 10:10:12 pm
Quote from: TELBOY
for once the photos do not do it justice!
Is that fabric you put on the engine compartment? And did you have the side windows out to cut it to fit?
Looks good . :
/Jon
Hi Jon
Yes, the windows are bonded to the wings so came out when I removed the wings (before removal of the wings). The carpeting I purchased from CAR BUILDER SOLUTIONS. When I removed the old carpeting I did it carefully and was able to use this as a template. I remember reading someone on the forum said it had to be done with the windows removed but in all honesty I think it could be done with them in-situ. I still have to do the inside of the boot and the boot cover. I have also replaced the vinyl along the inside upper at the glass hatch and down the sides. I did however remove the hatch, the strut mounts and the engine cover latches and sanded primed treated them. also replaced the electrical connectors for the heated rear window. As I said earlier it really has come up well and the photos do not really do it justice.
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 10, 2017, 10:22:53 pm
More photos:-


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 25, 2017, 01:36:38 pm
I made the boot cover from 5.5 ply wood which is thicker than the 2.5 Matra used! the underside is covered in vinyl and the top carpeted then a 9-12 edging fitted. I have cut out the holes for the metal supports but if I was doing it again I would just drill a hole with a "knob" through it and a flat piece of metal on the underside. I think this would be much better!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 06, 2017, 04:28:23 pm
Nice sunny day so the work continues. The marks below the registration plate are where I have removed some of the protective coating on the bumper to fit the lamp.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: sc1962 on August 18, 2017, 04:15:36 pm
it looks good.youre doin a fantastic job.always remember " Rome wasn't built in a day" as I always tell er indoors :D :D :D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 31, 2017, 08:44:15 pm
So I finally got around to replacing the electric window motor on the drivers side with the one from a Renault 9! As you may be able to see in the photos the one on the left is the one from a Renault and the right hand one the original. The shaft on the Renault one was longer and a lot less worn which meant I had to remove the grub screw at the end so the new motor would wit correctly and "do up" I placed a little grease in the end and then did the screw up firmly then slackened 1/4 turn so the motor ran freely. If the screw is too tight it prevents the motor from turning and too loose and the shaft is given enough room to move forwards and backwards in the motor which can cause "jamming" or rattling.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on September 02, 2017, 10:10:18 am
So I finally got around to replacing the electric window motor on the drivers side with the one from a Renault 9! As you may be able to see in the photos the one on the left is the one from a Renault and the right hand one the original. The shaft on the Renault one was longer and a lot less worn which meant I had to remove the grub screw at the end so the new motor would wit correctly and "do up" I placed a little grease in the end and then did the screw up firmly then slackened 1/4 turn so the motor ran freely. If the screw is too tight it prevents the motor from turning and too loose and the shaft is given enough room to move forwards and backwards in the motor which can cause "jamming" or rattling.

Note also from the bottom photo the plate across holding the plastic worm wheel housing in place.  On the Murena ones the plastic is only held in place by the alloy body being peened over around the edge.  This often allows the housing to move away and the worm wheel slips and causes the 'Brrrr' noise whilst the window stops moving.  That plate provides a much better secure fixing to stop the motor slipping.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 02, 2017, 06:49:13 pm
So I finally got around to replacing the electric window motor on the drivers side with the one from a Renault 9! As you may be able to see in the photos the one on the left is the one from a Renault and the right hand one the original. The shaft on the Renault one was longer and a lot less worn which meant I had to remove the grub screw at the end so the new motor would wit correctly and "do up" I placed a little grease in the end and then did the screw up firmly then slackened 1/4 turn so the motor ran freely. If the screw is too tight it prevents the motor from turning and too loose and the shaft is given enough room to move forwards and backwards in the motor which can cause "jamming" or rattling.

Note also from the bottom photo the plate across holding the plastic worm wheel housing in place.  On the Murena ones the plastic is only held in place by the alloy body being peened over around the edge.  This often allows the housing to move away and the worm wheel slips and causes the 'Brrrr' noise whilst the window stops moving.  That plate provides a much better secure fixing to stop the motor slipping.



Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 02, 2017, 06:50:58 pm
As she stands!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 26, 2017, 01:10:22 pm
Decided to dismantle clutch master cylinder to replace seals.....cat had other ideas!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 27, 2017, 02:05:45 pm
So lets think about this!!!! Clutch master cylinder repair kit from Simons.....13.9euro +20 euro postage!         Complete NOS clutch master cylinder listed for a Baggy 25 + 4.50 postage (the later version so it fits the baby Murena)...... Absolutly no objection to Simons prices but postage 20euro!!! come on....


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 02, 2017, 01:18:19 pm
Two steps forward, one step back:-
This mornings easy job was replacing brake pipe clips:-
Whist undertaking this simple task I discovered that the fuel tank straps had disappeared, no doubt into a pile of rust somewhere!!!  


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 02, 2017, 04:00:55 pm
Could someone please advise me if I have done this correctly before its too late to change? When I fitted new brake pipe from left to right at the rear last year , I threaded the pipe through 3 gaps in the chassis. However the old pipe was just below this supported just by ty-wraps! Have I done this correctly? The old ty-wraps can still be seen at both ends (only one photo came out) But I drilled and fitted brake clips!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Bart_Maztra on October 03, 2017, 05:50:49 pm
Check which size bore clutch master cylinder you have.  There are 3 bore sizes around.
Make sure the repair kit is the same.
Also when going for a replacement cylinder, make sure the bore is the same.

I had mine cylinder replaced, and found the clutch pedal much harder to press. Turned out the replacement cylinder was bigger than the old one. 
http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1420.msg10726.html#msg10726 (http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1420.msg10726.html#msg10726)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 04, 2017, 09:59:22 am
Thanks for the advice B-M I checked with Roy first (as I always do) Mine is the correct one (19mm) Unfortunatly Roy didn't have any repair kits and I point blank refused to give Simons 67.9 euro for the piston kit (including postage) I found a nice man after searching for 8hrs on the interweb and purchased his entire stock of the same piston kit. They have the same I.D numbers stamped on the pistons and worked out at a third of the price!!! I plan to pass these on to members if there is any interest. I am also paying him a visit today as he says he may have some NOS master cylinders so am taking mine down to compare. Again these work out at less than a third of the price and cheaper than simons repair piston kit!!!! Will keep the forum posted (and the owners mag)
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 04, 2017, 12:59:48 pm
Just got back............well, the casing and mounting points were identical, but, He allowed me to remove the piston and we measured it to find it was 22mm. He showed me a rather oilr and dusty book which listed this part as for a Bagheera and simca 1000..........surely this cant be right? I thought the baggy had the same diameter piston as the Murena 1.6! Anyway photo of mine stripped and ready to clean and fit new piston spring washer and circlip.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 04, 2017, 06:15:42 pm
so puzzling over this all day I went back and purchased one for the hell of it!!!!!! So:- obviously the mounting is identical and all pipe attachments are correct! Therefore being a larger bore it should displace more fluid when activated causing problems at the slave end, correct????
But....as can be seen in the photos the bore of the piston passed the seal is increased so taking up space which would otherwise be full of fluid....therefore the amount of fluid displaced when the clutch is pressed and the piston moved "may" well be equal to the amount of fluid displaced in the smaller cylinder.
Or to put it as archimedes did. an article placed in a liquid will displace its own volume of liquid.
There is a way of testing this but I havnt got the time at the moment!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on October 05, 2017, 11:57:02 am
The volume of fluid displaced is  equal to the area of the piston face (3.142 x radius squared) x piston travel.  The larger volume of fluid displaced will make the clutch action heavier and possibly push the slave beyond the end of it normal travel.  I wouldn't use it.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 05, 2017, 12:42:49 pm
Hi Pete
Your calculation of Pie r sq would be correct if there was no intrusion passed the end of the piston, but, as stated both pistons have a protrusion passed the end of the piston with the 22mm much larger therefore displacing much more fluid. The amount of movement at the slave cylinder would be determined by the volume of fluid displace as we agree but these volumes may be the same. I don't intend using it as I have the 19mm one which now has new piston and seals fitted, but for my own interest I will be filling both with fluid replacing the pistons and seals and checking the volume of fluid both hold
Will let you know the results, but it is really intriguing me.
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on October 05, 2017, 12:59:34 pm
The protrusion doesn't make any a difference to the volume displaced, it simply means you start off with a smaller initial amount, but the displacement is the same.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 05, 2017, 04:06:54 pm
Agreed... Will hang onto it as i got it as an experiment and it has the same mountings.  You never know,  if my slave goes I'll get the matching one. LOL
TEL


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on October 10, 2017, 01:26:44 pm
Agreed... Will hang onto it as i got it as an experiment and it has the same mountings.  You never know,  if my slave goes I'll get the matching one. LOL

You can't Terry.  The 1.6 and 2.2 slave cylinders are totally different.  The 1.6 (or Simca/Bagheera/Rancho etc.) slave cylinders are bolted to the bell housing casing with two 8mm bolts, whilst the 2.2 slave has no flanges where bolts could be fitted.  It is purely cylindrical and slid into a circular casting and held in place with a large circlip.

For information a 1.6 slave has a 25.4mm bore and the 2.2 slave has a 28.6mm bore.

Roy
P.S. I have plenty of these circlips if any 2.2 owners needs one: 1


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 11, 2017, 08:34:37 pm
You will all be pleased to know that the clutch master is now repaired and in perfect operating condition. As EOW is a 1.9 pug engine with the relevant slave cylinder it might be possible if I ever needed to fit a different slave, but all this is really me just thinking out loud, and being reluctant to pay Simons prices (postage) but it does appear that there is no option if I ever need a new master cylinder. but, and I am being seriouse for a change!" as it appears there are plenty of the larger bore cylinders is it possible to press a machined tube into the bore to make it the correct diameter? the holes for the fluid could be drilled ounce in position!!! I had a look ont interweb and it appears that these tubes can be obtained and as a larger diameter bore master cylinder can be found for around 25 it would work out a cheap alternative! again me thinking out loud but as I now have a larger master it is something I will experiment on just for the hell of it.. Advice / ideas more than welcome.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on January 29, 2018, 01:21:21 pm
Hopefully winter has been and gone. Whilst replacing brake pipe clips I noted that the outside fuel tank strap had suffered from the dreaded metal worm! so I had to make one of these and fit. Relatively simple task but on first glance the rotted one looked ok but the tank had dropped and was resting on the chassis.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Jon Weywadt on February 07, 2018, 11:17:11 am
Hopefully winter has been and gone. Whilst replacing brake pipe clips I noted that the outside fuel tank strap had suffered from the dreaded metal worm! so I had to make one of these and fit. Relatively simple task but on first glance the rotted one looked ok but the tank had dropped and was resting on the chassis.

I solved that problem several years ago by making a new set in stainless steel. Replaced them at the same time I installed stainless cooling and heating pipes. Also replaced the pipes mounting straps.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on February 14, 2018, 09:53:01 am
Hopefully winter has been and gone. Whilst replacing brake pipe clips I noted that the outside fuel tank strap had suffered from the dreaded metal worm! so I had to make one of these and fit. Relatively simple task but on first glance the rotted one looked ok but the tank had dropped and was resting on the chassis.

I solved that problem several years ago by making a new set in stainless steel. Replaced them at the same time I installed stainless cooling and heating pipes. Also replaced the pipes mounting straps.

Snap.already fitted stainless pipes and brackets!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on February 17, 2018, 01:59:43 pm
Hi all.  More help needed!  Can anyone share a photo of the brake pressure limiter? Not sure i am connecting inlet and outlet correctly!  Many thanks Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on March 30, 2018, 07:00:39 am
Sorry for my late reply.
This is the only pic I have.
The down connnection is in.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-bmztzBKMKL8/UBli0Sa6QQI/AAAAAAAAA2A/J-Sld_EHX2s/s800/P1050145%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: speed pete on April 01, 2018, 04:48:25 pm
i want fat cat!!!!!!!

Here he is : Billy the cat


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 03, 2018, 05:25:10 pm
looks evil


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 03, 2018, 05:27:03 pm
Thanks for the photo oetker..great help :)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 18, 2018, 07:20:15 pm
Summer is here at last. Rear window trim fitted.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 24, 2018, 07:35:56 pm
nice day for it!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on April 25, 2018, 04:01:26 pm
The car looks better every time.
Way to go 8)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 26, 2018, 08:00:15 pm
Thanks Oetker. Appreciate the comment. Back to work tomorrow so no more work on her for a couple of weeks :(


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 22, 2018, 04:16:55 pm
My attention has now turned to the nose cone / bumper / spoiler, what ever it is called! Originally I was going to use the one from EOW but have now opted to use the one from Donna. This is because it has a moulded light housing compared to just a metal plate from what I must presume was the original design


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 22, 2018, 04:19:17 pm
The top rubber strip had been secured using double sided tape so was easily removed the impact strip had been replaced at some time and was secured using bolts which had all rusted and needed cutting out with a grinder (carefully) whilst dribbling water onto the bolts so as not to "melt" the fibreglass.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 22, 2018, 04:21:39 pm
After cleaning and patiently filling any imperfections it the had three coats of primer rubbing down after each coat with a cutting paste!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 05, 2018, 06:46:26 pm
First two coats.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 01, 2018, 08:38:38 pm
not too sure if all the effort was worth it!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 01, 2018, 08:46:51 pm
tub ready to fit and why you have never seen EOW from the front!!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Jon Weywadt on July 03, 2018, 12:29:56 pm
tub ready to fit and why you have never seen EOW from the front!!!!!
If you haven't already decided to do so, consider installing pop-nuts in the chassis and use screws instead of pop-rivets to mount the tub. I did that and it is easy to remove if needed.  ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 03, 2018, 06:52:50 pm
tub ready to fit and why you have never seen EOW from the front!!!!!
If you haven't already decided to do so, consider installing pop-nuts in the chassis and use screws instead of pop-rivets to mount the tub. I did that and it is easy to remove if needed.  ;D
[/quot

Thanks for the advice Jon....hadnt thout about that sounds a good idea. Will order some.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 03, 2018, 07:07:07 pm
Cheers Jon.....order placed : )


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Jon Weywadt on July 04, 2018, 06:24:33 pm
Cheers Jon.....order placed : )
Btw. I also cut a slit to the side from the hole where the speedo cable comes through. That way I do not have to pull the cable to get the tub out.  ;)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Gib on July 06, 2018, 09:08:26 am
Terry

I have a Rivnut gun and the nuts if you want to borrow them . I can leave the kit at my brothers house.

BTW it is a better solution than pop rivets and the one I was going to go with based on some one else's suggestion.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 07, 2018, 11:23:12 am
Thanks Jon.have taken your advice! Hey Gib...now you tell me! wasn't joking when I said I had ordered one!!!Arrived this morning lol


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Jon Weywadt on July 08, 2018, 12:37:43 pm
Thanks Jon.have taken your advice! Hey Gib...now you tell me! wasn't joking when I said I had ordered one!!!Arrived this morning lol
Looks good. I have that exact pop-nut kit too.  ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 08, 2018, 01:47:47 pm
Looking at the tub I had prepared it was evident something was amiss! I checked the other tub and found two plates riveted to the underside. I have removed, repaired the almost missing nut and treated and am preparing to rivet onto the new tub. I am assuming that these must be for some kind of bracket to secure the battery? is it a standard type with two rods and a clamp going over the top of the battery along one side, as the front of the battery has a lower lip to hold it in place. 


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 08, 2018, 02:24:54 pm
Bonnet prepping! how I love it (not)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 13, 2018, 07:25:37 pm
I know its been done before:- MK1 VW Golf H4 headlights fitting to a Matra. Will keep you posted on progress.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 15, 2018, 02:04:45 pm
I started off by carefully drilling out the rivets for the lifting bracket and the adjusters! Then offering up the backing plate to see where to begin. I then marked off how much of the plate to cut off. I wanted to remove as little metal as possible!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 15, 2018, 02:09:37 pm
The bottom of the plate is flat so this was used as a guide. After several cuts (I didn't want to do too much at once in case I removed too much) I offered it up and temporarily fitted it.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 15, 2018, 02:13:13 pm
I then marked where the adjusters were and drilled two holes for these. Then using fibre glass sheets at the back and filler at the front I filled all the holes and the old adjuster cut outs. This I felt would put back some of the strength in the pod.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 15, 2018, 02:15:08 pm
the whole pod was then sanded down a coat of paint added to finish it off ready to fit the light


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 15, 2018, 02:55:20 pm
one down one to go.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 24, 2018, 05:19:41 pm
Not too shabby!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 31, 2018, 06:56:25 pm
Bonnet safety release cable.
When stripping EOW one of the first things I had noticed was two broken cables coming from the light lifting mechanism. In my early days I did not know what these were but after starting the rebuild and spending hours reading about Murenas I found these to be the emergency light lift cable and the mechanism to stop you from opening the bonnet when the lights were in the up positions as they do not have enough room to do so and could cause damage. Now that I am into the rebuild I am obviously repairing and replacing broken items. Now I was thinking about not bothering to replace the safety cable but then I thought it would be best to as it couldn't take that long and was designed to have one so better but one on.
Matra have conveniently put an inspection cover on the underside of the release catch and upon removal (drilling out the rusted screws) it was evident that the mechanism had rusted or frozen in place and when the lights lifted it just snapped the cable at the bottom of the cable where it meets the lifting bar. the cable is a "solid" type that enables both pushing and pulling and just goes into a simple bent strip of metal so when the lights are up it simply blocks the bonnet release mechanism. When the lights are down the cable pushes the lever out of the way so the bonnet mechanism can be operated without obstruction. The first two pictures show the relevant positions when the lights are down and the second two show the positions when the lights are up.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on August 01, 2018, 09:42:25 am
My car was the same, the emergency lifting cable was missing altogether so I bought a lorry engine stop cable, I think from Car Builder Solutions and cut it down to size, I used the bit left over to re-make the heater water valve cable.  For your safety cable, get a length of piano wire, 1.2 mm should do.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 01, 2018, 05:49:48 pm
Will do Pete. Thanks for advice


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 01, 2018, 05:54:34 pm
You may remember several pages ago I had removed the front impact strip from the bumper as this had been bolted on. Obviously the holes left were too big for rivets so I obtained some counter sunk screw headed bolts and have tig welded these to the metal strip before re-fitting


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 02, 2018, 02:15:36 pm
Still lots to do, ie:- bonnet, fog lights, covers, top rubber strip and trim! excuse the broom handle keeping the bonnet up!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 14, 2018, 03:19:43 pm
In keeping with my usual 1 step forward 2 back I am having a new screen fitted next week (255) uero glass. Martin at uero glass put me in touch with a gent called Sel who has already been round to check out EOW. Sel who specialises in classic cars is collecting the glass which will save me 65 delivery. I have taken the opportunity to remove the screen myself to make sure I had enough time to wrap the roof ensure that all traces of sealant were removed around the screen and spray the scuttle immediately under the screen . I used Halfords etching primer and VHT wrinkle finish spray and it has come up remarkable well. The metal under the scuttle, which is not seen when the bonnet is closed, I used a black hemerite to protect from rust after cleaning with a wire brush and sanding. I obtained the screen surround from France and it does look to be correct one.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 17, 2018, 04:55:37 pm
Today was new windscreen day!
The windscreen surround purchased from France IS correct and leaves about 6 inches (15cm) over. The gent who did it took about 3 hrs and took great pride in his work.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on August 21, 2018, 09:04:17 am
Good job, and I know it takes much effort en patience to do it.
It took me a day to get it about right.
It is the caravan Herxim strip I used so not original but nobody ever noticed ;D
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pWMIzwE0YK0/T3Yevt5i6ZI/AAAAAAAADtE/DInb5AnCMAc/s800/p1000893medium.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2msOfqvuTMQ/T3X70v-mW_I/AAAAAAAADrs/5zVsBMLVykk/s800/P1000896.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7Ummh_kLm6c/T3X728Sq9RI/AAAAAAAADsU/5VwIdmHTHdg/s800/P1000902.JPG)

Herman


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 26, 2018, 05:14:37 pm
Slowly does it!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 03, 2018, 09:03:44 am
Work in progress!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 11, 2018, 04:57:15 pm
carbon fibre instrument cluster


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on March 30, 2019, 02:17:36 pm
Hi all, I need a recommendation for a battery, (make and model or type number) The two I got with the cars are now defuncked! They were also too big. Also which other cars have the same type of battery clamps for securing the battery. Thanks in advance for your help.
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: murramor on April 01, 2019, 04:08:48 am
This is one from left field and may not appeal to everybody.  What I use on my older cars that are not used as regularly, as I would like, is an Odyssey PC680 Absorbed Glass Mat battery.


They are tiny and light and claim to lose only 1% of their charge per month.  I find them quite adequate for cars from pre-computer days although they look too small to do the job.  It is possible to buy a tray to hold them so they are quite easy to fit.  I use spade terminals that screw on to the top of the posts in order to avoid any chance of them shorting against the metal hold down strap.

I won't be near my car for a few days so I can't show a picture of the installation so I have stolen a picture off eBay.
regards
Ron
Sydney


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on April 05, 2019, 11:28:04 am
Hi all, I need a recommendation for a battery, (make and model or type number) The two I got with the cars are now defuncked! They were also too big. Also which other cars have the same type of battery clamps for securing the battery. Thanks in advance for your help.
Tel

(See my FAQ page six, which covers batteries for the Murena)

The Murena had a small battery which was only 135mm wide at the hold down strips along the base where the clamps fasten.  Originally it was 265CCA (cold cranking amps) with a 35-40Ah rating.  You can do slightly better today with the same size since an '049' battery will have 300CCA (so more starting power) and a similar or better 40-45 Ah rating.  These are wet Lead-Acid batteries.  You might sometimes see a better one with 330CCA but these don't always have the hold down strips at the base for the clamps and are specified as 129mm wide; so you will have to devise another method to secure that battery.

A.G.M. (advanced glass mat) batteries which usually contain a gel and not a liquid, are much better, and as Paul says only lose about 1% charge per month compared to a lead-acid battery which can lose 1% per day, but they are generally up to four times the cost here in the U.K.  They also must have a special charger if you charge the battery yourself as they don't like rapid charging or heat, so the charger monitors the battery whilst charging.

One of the biggest advantages of an A.G.M. battery is that you can 'deep cycle' it.  This means you can re-charge it when it has gone very flat and the battery suffers little damage.  A modern wet lead-acid battery cannot be deep cycled any more like proper lead plated batteries used to be cable of, back in the fifties or before.  If you let a modern lead-acid battery go flat (even sometime down to 70% charge) and then recharge it, it will never be as good and can let you down at a moments notice.  This is because as the charge drops really low the plates sulphate and the battery will never be as good afterwards.  You could be using the car fine one day and next day the battery is flat and won't even turn the engine over!  The answer is to use the car regularly and never let the battery go flat.

Because they only lose charge very slowly A.G.M. batteries are often used in boats which get intermittent use and some people use them in classic cars for the same reason.  However, the range is very limited especially in the size we need in the Murena, so there is only one I know of in the U.K. that is suitable and that is the Optima 'yellow top' YTS 2.7 which costs around 130 and does not have the hold down strips either, so you would have to devise another method to secure the battery.  It does have a higher specification as it is rated at 460CCA and 38 Ah and should have a multi-year warranty but one stockist only claims a one year warranty, which is pathetic for such an expensive battery.  In comparison a Varta B32 or B34 '049' lead-acid battery has a 4-year warranty!  Yet the Optima should outlast any lead-acid battery and should last probably 10 years or more.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 06, 2019, 02:51:35 pm
(See my FAQ page six, which covers batteries for the Murena)


That's very interesting information, Roy!

It seems these batteries are somewhat cheaper in the UK than here, this is the cheapest I've managed find at 1600 DKK = roughly 185 GBP https://www.batteribyen.dk/optima-yellow-top-12v-38ah-startbatteri-sma-biler-med-oliefyr

Here's a link to your excellent FAQ page, by the way: http://www.matraclub.org.uk/faq6.html



Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 10, 2019, 10:22:20 am
Thanks for the info gents. As usual first place I looked was Roys FAQ's but must have missed it.
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Oetker on April 10, 2019, 04:34:59 pm
I have this one and have no problems with it.
Cheap and good brand.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B24-Varta-Black-Dynamic-Car-Battery-049H/272449430224?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

(http://www.accuwarenhuis.nl/372-696-large/varta-black-dynamic-545079030-b24-12v-45ah20h.jpg)




Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 21, 2019, 08:31:02 pm
Just got to figure out where this lot go!
Starting on the interior now.............The red "T" handle is the cable I have fitted for the emergency light lift


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 22, 2019, 06:41:18 am
Just got to figure out where this lot go!
Starting on the interior now.............The red "T" handle is the cable I have fitted for the emergency light lift

Great! Looking good in a messy way ;)

My cable for the emergency light lift broke as I tried to undo it by the lifter bar... I will refit it for originality, but I've never heard of anyone having to use it, and with the angle on which it pulls, I think it's barely useful.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 24, 2019, 05:24:43 pm
Re-assembly and lining re trim.
Has anyone used vinyl paint? I ask as I have two sets of sun visors, one grey, one brown and ideally would like them black.

Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: murramor on April 24, 2019, 11:49:18 pm
Has anyone used vinyl paint? I ask as I have two sets of sun visors, one grey, one brown and ideally would like them black.
Funny that you should mention sun visors!  The plastic fittings on my old ones broke so I bought a new pair from Simon.  They were light brown instead of dark brown.  I bought some vinyl paint and painted them but the paint never dried.  Even after weeks in the sun they still remained tacky and stuck to anything they touched.  I removed the paint with acetone and tried some Rustoleum plastic paint.  This paint did dry after a couple of days but looked too shiny to my eyes so I swapped the fittings over to my old sun visors.  I can therefore report only partial success!     Perhaps you will have a wider range of colours available in the UK!

Ron
Sydney, Australia


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Colin on April 25, 2019, 08:56:00 pm
I have had the same thing, used vinyl paint and it never dried. Eventually I managed to get most of it back off using acetone, and repainted the bits using ordinary plastic primer and satin black paint.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 25, 2019, 09:40:39 pm
May try to recover the brown ones....or just clean and use the grey ones


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on April 27, 2019, 01:51:40 am
Can you please take these photos off and resize them to fit a normal screen, thank you.
All photos for the forum should be no larger than 1024 x 768.

Update:
Thanks Terry, that makes it so much easier to see and read now.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 28, 2019, 06:45:29 pm
Its the little things in life that keep me happy, such as re fitting the interior light and watching others work!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 28, 2019, 08:44:04 pm
Its the little things in life that keep me happy, such as re fitting the interior light and watching others work!

 :o ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 30, 2019, 03:33:06 pm
Experimental covering of sun visors:-
First attempt so am certain I can get them better!
On one side I have used the same material as the roof lining so when closed will match a little better, on the other side vinyl cloth


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 06, 2019, 11:43:04 am
Advice please:-
Am I correct in thinking I have something missing?
When the handbrake is off their is nothing to make the brake switch go down and thus turn off the warning light off!
I am thinking I may have to weld a nut on the inside of the lever so I can screw a bolt through it and have it adjustable to touch the switch.
Can anyone tell me what should be there?


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on May 06, 2019, 03:36:52 pm
I've had a look at the parts book, and there is a clip which is attached to a hole in the handbrake lever, the hole appears  to be further down though, approximately where the blob of weld is in your picture.  Has something been relocated?


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 06, 2019, 08:38:17 pm
Thanks for the reeply Pete. I dont think its been modified but will have a good look at it and let you know
Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 08, 2019, 04:40:18 pm
Problem discovered (but not yet fixed)
I dug out the spare handbrake lever, (buried under about  100kg of spares, it does pay not to throw anything away!) And found it had the clip Peter said about, which is missing from the one fitted.
However the current lever is not laying flat where it should be but is sticking on about the third ratchet.
After investigation I have found why.
When I fitted the handbrake cable I noticed that the metal rod or bar coming from the lever to the cable had been cut and a one inch nut screwed on, the two parts bolted together and a dab of weld to fix.
I replaced this with an equal size rod bending the end to go through the handbrake lever. As the original bar had been drilled and a split pin fitted where it goes into the handbrake I used a locknut to secure, It is this nut that is preventing the handbrake from going completely down as it interferes with the mounting. Another job for the weekend!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 09, 2019, 06:04:00 pm
Congrats on the diagnosis, sounds like you're very close to having a problem-well-solved there!  8)

That clip seems to be spring loaded, right? I wonder why they didn't just fit a switch with a longer stalk ???


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 09, 2019, 07:29:08 pm
Congrats on the diagnosis, sounds like you're very close to having a problem-well-solved there!  8)

That clip seems to be spring loaded, right? I wonder why they didn't just fit a switch with a longer stalk ???


Because they're French!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 10, 2019, 07:30:29 pm
Congrats on the diagnosis, sounds like you're very close to having a problem-well-solved there!  8)

That clip seems to be spring loaded, right? I wonder why they didn't just fit a switch with a longer stalk ???


Because they're French!!!!

LOL! Of course ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 11, 2019, 05:27:22 pm
Problem solved. Even gave it a rub down and respray.

hand brake on / off


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: murramor on May 12, 2019, 12:55:50 am
Looking good Tel. You have motivated me to clean up my handbrake mechanism.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 12, 2019, 07:07:27 am
Very nice indeed! Job very well done! :)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 12, 2019, 05:42:28 pm
Head lining finished so hopefully can fit it tomorrow! Before and after!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: murramor on May 13, 2019, 12:07:40 am
Tel.  I would be interested to know what is involved in removing and replacing the headliner?
regards
Ron


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 13, 2019, 09:00:03 am
Morning Ron,
it is actually very simple, however as you know I had two Murena's to make one good one and they were fitted in different ways!
It is not necessary to remove the sun visors but disconnect the three wires for the internal light. Two power the light and the third goes from the light to a mounting on the chassis as an earth and can easily be missed (as I did)
At the rear of the headlining you will see three self tapping screws. Remove the outer two and slacken off the middle one but leave supporting the rear. At the front you (may) see five poppers. Remove these getting an assistant to hold the roof pull these out, then remove the last self tapper. If you remove all the front support or rear support you "could" damage it if it falls.I did it on my own and mine didn't fall its just it could.

The other type I had omitted the front poppers, The front and sides were supported by the lining being wider and longer and being glued under the upper door rubbers.
It was offered additional support by being clued to the sound proofing which sits between the roof and lining.
It is a fragile and brittle type of plastic, mine had a small area of damage but was easily fixed with fibreglass sheet.

Replacing the material was a little harder but not much but took a few hours...
Please don't laugh but this is how I did it after trying  the usual methods of soaking in solvents which didn't work.
I poured boiling water on the lining to soften the clue and carefully pulled off the material, this removed the top layer, I then got some hair trimmers and "shaved" most of the remaining off.
This left a very thin layer still glued on so I used a blow torch (the small type you use in the kitchen) and carefully scorched what was left, gave it a wipe and it all came clean.  

My roof had sagged slightly so I cut thin strips of metal and riveted these to the top side. This is on page 5 of my doings.
Have fun!!

Tel


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: murramor on May 13, 2019, 09:43:45 am
Thanks Tel.  I will be in Spain and Portugal for the next month but I already can't wait to get back to finish off the myriad of small details necessary to get the car registered.  In the nearly 20 years that I have had it I have never driven it other than in first gear and on private property!  I can't wait to get it on the road.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 13, 2019, 09:18:08 pm
So, unable to do the headlining as I forgot to get a new aerial, thought I would "re visit" the lining and sound proofing that goes behind the seats..........
much better!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 16, 2019, 09:42:18 am
Thought it was time to look at the electrics, so selecting the best PCB I had (which is still not good) and per-chasing new relays and fuses I diligently re connected the electrics to all the lights indictors horn and wipers after carefully cleaning all contacts! I placed the steering column switches oven the column but didn't fix as obviously I still have to fit the dash and this would get in the way!
"How hard can this be" I thought!
connect green plug to green plug, grey plug to grey plug,....and whats these two loose wire????
"Ah....got two loose wire there"
Blue wire to blue wire
Blue and yellow wire to blue and yellow wire.
Side lights on..............check..........back lights on.......check
Indicators on ..............check
wipers working............check
horn..........................check
Headlights on.............  W.T.F

Why are my driving lamps on?????
So crawling under the front I start checking and re checking I have all the wires around the right way
seems fine........
Check I have the PCB and plugs all connected correctly .. looks O.K
Scratch head and have a coffee...
Dig out wiring diagram kindly supplied by Roy.
W.T.F............Who at Matra decided that the blue wire should go to the blue and yellow
and the blue and yellow goes to the blue!!!!!!!!
Check the diagram first...........................


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 17, 2019, 06:26:03 am
W.T.F............Who at Matra decided that the blue wire should go to the blue and yellow
and the blue and yellow goes to the blue!!!!!!!!
Check the diagram first...........................

I had a good laugh here and that question stayed with me for a while :) Someone must have thought about this as a possible modification. Great to hear you're up running with the electrics! Well done :)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 17, 2019, 09:54:20 am
Not too sure about that Anders.
slightest knock and I lose connections!!!
May be spending time trying to find if Simons or Carjoy have a new pcb!!!
Either that or get the soldering iron out.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on May 17, 2019, 10:16:58 am
Have you checked the connectors in the plug?  They split at the corner and don't grip properly.  They can be replaced individually, new ones are available from mini specialists. I'm not sure that laying huge blobs of solder on the edge connectors was a good idea.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on May 17, 2019, 11:05:25 am
Not too sure about that Anders.
slightest knock and I lose connections!!!
May be spending time trying to find if Simons or Carjoy have a new pcb!!!
Either that or get the soldering iron out.

As Peter has pointed out, it is not a good idea to put solder blobs at the edges of the board as that only stresses the terminals in the plugs... and they crack or break easily enough as standard. If you do add some solder make sure it is just a new flat covering.

However, as I've pointed out in my thread 'Fuse Board Connections', you can replace the connections and get a much more positive set up using soldered terminal blocks with push in plugs. I have a number of these terminal blocks now and can modify a few extra boards. I assume the top board in your photos is the better of the two you have? That really would be suitable for my mods. as the tracks are all good. The tracks on the board in the lower photo are in poor condition with at least one burnt away completely but even that should be recoverable Terry.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 17, 2019, 01:19:03 pm
Hi gents. I read your thread a while back Roy but it looks beyond me. I can hit things with a hammer but its a little too delicate fom me. Neither simons or carjoy have the boards in stock. The repairs on the pcb s were not done by me but a previouse owner I presume . Any assistance would be greatly appdeciated as I finally  believe I am on the final leg.  Engine is running all be it lumpy. Thi k I have an air leak but havnt found it this .morning despite replacing all light vacume pipes.  Got a lead on seat refurbishment who has a headrest at present so i can check his work first.  Things really are moving.. shame im back to work next week


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 24, 2019, 08:07:51 pm
So I cant fit my new seat belts or dash until I re trim the A pillars. I cant retrim the A pullars until I refit the roof lining and I cant fit the head lining until I fit the new aerial base!!!! 10 days waiting for a part that costs 2.91

ANNOYED


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 25, 2019, 07:42:50 am
So I cant fit my new seat belts or dash until I re trim the A pillars. I cant retrim the A pullars until I refit the roof lining and I cant fit the head lining until I fit the new aerial base!!!! 10 days waiting for a part that costs 2.91

ANNOYED

Oh dear! 10 days, sitting in the car, sipping G&T, dreaming about how perfect it will be - enjoy! :)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 29, 2019, 10:47:12 am
YAY.....................Relax everyone, It's arrived!!!!!!

Just waiting for the new seatbelts now! :(


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 30, 2019, 07:00:09 am
YAY.....................Relax everyone, It's arrived!!!!!!

Just waiting for the new seatbelts now! :(

Woohoo - it's looking great :)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 31, 2019, 07:01:39 pm
More "new bits"
Yes I know there is only two!
but after checking my six, two were broken, two (after I x-rayed them) were "ify"
1 was ok and 1 was like new!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 12, 2019, 03:03:12 pm
at last! head lining fitted!! not easy on your own. The wire protruding from the rear is from the brake light switch which I "MAY" use to fit a high level brake light at a later date.
"A" pillars next.........deep joy!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Moes on June 18, 2019, 07:43:43 pm
Hi Telboy

I got inspired to make/repair the boot cover in my Bagheera after having see you do it!
When I bought my car (a type 1 Bagheera) the cover that came with the car was from a type 2, which was about an inch to large. And I have not been taking the time to refit it before now.
When I opened up the cover it was clear that it had been stored very wet, and the fiber board was swollen and in bad condition, and the fabric was green..

But now I finally have made one that fits :-)

I should probably do my fuel tank straps as well, as you have, previous owner made them out of some not so original looking fixing band.    

When are you planning/hoping to have your Murena on the road again?

Best regards Frederik


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 19, 2019, 08:10:13 am
WOW......nice job, and love the colour!
My hope is to get it finished in 2017 lol. Originally thought it would be a summer job. But you know how it is! Start thinking if I'm doing this I may as well do that!!!! I am taking early retirement end of January so realistically next summer. Will still be several years off 60 so I can still crawl under and around it and hopefully get to enjoy her.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 19, 2019, 04:32:05 pm
Just took my seats to a re trimmer for a quote. 4000!!! Think I may leave it for a while lol


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on June 20, 2019, 11:19:52 am
You could fit the tailored seat covers from Politecnic for a tenth of that.  See my article in the January 19 edition of the club magazine.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 20, 2019, 01:15:58 pm
Just read your article and checked website...312. Got to be worth a go. Will order them at the weekend. Thanks for the info


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Morne on June 20, 2019, 09:21:36 pm
Can you please share the website link


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 21, 2019, 09:17:34 am
http://www.politecnic.com/matra.html


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on June 21, 2019, 09:19:12 am
You will need another metre of the fabric to do the door cards and the fascia


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 21, 2019, 06:10:25 pm
Was goi g to get two Pete to do the back of middle seat too. I notice you cant order online so I hope my French is up to the job!!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on June 21, 2019, 07:50:12 pm
The back of the middle seat is included in the set, as is the headrest.  I didn't try speaking to them on the phone , I emailed them.  They write good English, but you have to pay by international bank transfer.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 21, 2019, 08:11:12 pm
Bonne idee.....lol


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 22, 2019, 05:07:44 am
You could fit the tailored seat covers from Politecnic for a tenth of that.  See my article in the January 19 edition of the club magazine.

I missed that. I'll need to find the magazine and read your story. I like the idea of keeping the fabric interior, but Simon has for many years offered this solution - it's not checp, but it's cheaper than the 4000 you were quoted, Terry: https://www.simon-auto-shop.de/epages/Simon-Auto-Anlasser-Lichtmaschinen.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Simon-Auto-Anlasser-Lichtmaschinen/Products/24082


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 22, 2019, 08:51:06 am
Wow...i was going to order the covers today but will look at them tonight  (got to be somewhere today) And zee if they are  overs.or i have to send my seats to Germany to get done




Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on June 22, 2019, 03:22:34 pm
If you are thinking of going down that route, you may also want to consider this http://carjoy.nl/matra-shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=62_137


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 22, 2019, 03:44:44 pm
Spoilt for choice now! Thats 1295 at todays rate plus taxes prob. Thats more like it. Just wonder if they are fit yoirself covers or i have to send the seats away


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 23, 2019, 04:40:24 am
Spoilt for choice now! Thats 1295 at todays rate plus taxes prob. Thats more like it. Just wonder if they are fit yoirself covers or i have to send the seats away

Simon has the seats refurbished from ground up, as far as I know, and needs your old seats and trims in return for the new ones.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 23, 2019, 06:34:14 pm
Thanks for all the info gents.
I have 3 sets of seats so for the first set I have emailed Politecnic to place an order for the DA6 type (red and black)
Once fitted I will decide if I like them and if not go down the "carjoy" route.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 24, 2019, 07:19:26 am
Thanks for all the info gents.
I have 3 sets of seats so for the first set I have emailed Politecnic to place an order for the DA6 type (red and black)
Once fitted I will decide if I like them and if not go down the "carjoy" route.

Awesome. Can't wait to see and hear what you think about it. It it sounds like pure Car Joy to me! ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 30, 2019, 03:43:32 pm
DISASTER......So due to work commitments I had been rather busy but as you may remember I had fitted the headlining and was rather pleased with how it came out. On wednesday I spent the day making templates for the "A" pillars. I am making the templates.from cardboard.so its easy to cut mark and figure out where the holes.for the fixing buttons go.  I then transfered the template.to hard board.and offered.them up...Perfect. Yesferday I was going to cover the board.in a thin sponge the use black vinyl to cover.them.Here in the UK it was.35c yesterday and when I opened  the car i was met with the sight of a sagging roof lining. I think the heat melted.the glue. I used a.proper cloth spray adhesive. So yesterday and today was spent removing said headlining recovering and fixing using a stronger glue and refitting. At least Im getting a nice.tan!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: JL on June 30, 2019, 10:13:57 pm
You really need to use an adhesive like this one
https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/high-temperature-contact-adhesive-1-one-litre
John


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 30, 2019, 10:21:21 pm
Thats the one Ive used now. Had a tin overr from when i did the boot.space. Thought i was being clever using a spray adhesive.  You live and learn.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 16, 2019, 09:22:12 pm
Headlining redone and refitted. After 4 attempts finally got the A pillar covers to look "ok". And started installing the soundproofing on the floor. Tomorrow is a big day! should at last be able to refit the dash!!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 17, 2019, 05:23:36 pm
So it may take longer than a day !!!!!
Hope my seat covers hurry up!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 17, 2019, 10:06:46 pm
So it may take longer than a day !!!!!
Hope my seat covers hurry up!!!!

It always takes longer! ;)

I'm very impressed with your work on the A-pillars!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 17, 2019, 11:45:11 pm
Thanks Anders. Must confess i cheated. After three attempts to get the poppers in the right place I ended up using some "grab fix" . I put a small spot where the buttons should be and then clamped them while it dried. They look ok. I used hardboard covered in thin sponge the wrapped in vinyl.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 18, 2019, 09:05:52 am
Thanks Anders. Must confess i cheated. After three attempts to get the poppers in the right place I ended up using some "grap fix" . I put a small spot where the buttons should be and then clamped them while it tried. They look ok. I used hardboard covered in thin sponge the wrapped in vinyl.

Terry, that sounds like a much better solution than the original! I would have thought the panel was curved, but since you've used hardboard, I guess it's not? I don't plan to do mine this time, but the cardboard is broken in several places so it sits loose, so I need to do something about it... but, leaving good work for later is part of my plan :)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 18, 2019, 10:25:20 am
You are correct Anders. It is curved down the length, it also gets slightly wider at the bottom and curved along the screen. Awkward shape but by making  cardboard templates it was a lot easier. Also the hardboard is the type you get in flatpack furniture so can easy be bent to shape.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 22, 2019, 06:13:24 pm
At last dash fitted! Clue in the photos why it took so long!!!! :)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 23, 2019, 06:29:52 pm
Spent the day removing and cleaning the rust from the window door runners, then refitting. The build up of rust in the channels had caused the gaps in the runners to close considerably.
Now onto the next task............re-cover the door cards in black vinyl.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 23, 2019, 10:53:06 pm
At last dash fitted! Clue in the photos why it took so long!!!! :)

Haha - good thing, it keeps mice away :)

Spent the day removing and cleaning the rust from the window door runners, then refitting. The build up of rust in the channels had caused the gaps in the runners to close considerably.
Now onto the next task............re-cover the door cards in black vinyl.

Is this for the window mechanisms? Interesting finding you have there about the rust and gaps closing - which must increase friction quite a bit!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 23, 2019, 11:12:42 pm
Spot on Anders. When i stuck my head in there i could see in places the gap was almost closed in places. When i pulled the rubbers out there was quite a bit of rust in places. I used a dremill  with a grinding stone to remove it. Also the rubber had been pushed in in places. As it has a small lip to try.to prevent this it was also closing the gap.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 26, 2019, 10:03:56 am
Fitting the Fuse board supplied by Roy! Fantastic piece of work.  Even I can fit it (being careful to connect correctly, one wire at a time) Removed the clip part of the old wire so they don't need soldering. The main power take off was a tight fit to get in to the connector and needed  the screw to be completely removed before it would slide in but the rest are a perfect fit..............Thanks Roy.... :)
Not completed yet (its raining....at last)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 26, 2019, 03:50:29 pm
Finished!!!! Even I shouldn't get these mixed up if their is a "next time"


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 27, 2019, 10:02:58 pm
Finished!!!! Even I shouldn't get these mixed up if their is a "next time"

It looks very, very good! Congratulations! There are four tabs about 3 cm length and 0.5 cm wide potruding down from the plastic cover which is screwed on the metal bracket and on which the lid fits. The PCB fits into these four tabs.

/Anders


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 28, 2019, 02:13:07 pm
Thanks Anders. Sometimes I am astounded by my own stupidity.
Needs a good clean!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 28, 2019, 08:51:07 pm
Thanks Anders. Sometimes I am astounded by my own stupidity.
Needs a good clean!

LOL - remember, there are no stupid questions......  ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 28, 2019, 09:48:47 pm
Yeah.........just my answers...lol


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 10, 2019, 02:45:51 pm
Seat covers have arrived so I thought although not ready I would check them out. This is obviously the head rest! not too bad a fit but with a little patience a needle and cotton the result, I think, are very good!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 11, 2019, 02:10:58 pm
lovely sunny day!
But on a different note am seriously thinking about putting the manual windows back in the car!!!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 11, 2019, 02:15:23 pm
lovely sunny day!
But on a different note am seriously thinking about putting the manual windows back in the car!!!!!!

Wow, that's looking classy! Why the manual windows? :D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 11, 2019, 04:01:06 pm
It originally had manual windows and trying to fit the electric ones is a right pain, so will refit the originals and maybe fit the electric ones at a later date.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: murramor on August 12, 2019, 08:24:18 am
Well done re the trimming.  You're keeping the lines nice and square - which I is harder than it at first appears.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on August 12, 2019, 09:38:49 am
It originally had manual windows and trying to fit the electric ones is a right pain, so will refit the originals and maybe fit the electric ones at a later date.

The Murena had different door mechanisms for manual or electric windows so it is not as straight forward as you might think.  Are you trying to fit motors or your manual system or are you replacing the complete system?  Are you using the original mechanisms and motors from a Murena that had electric windows, or a third party system?

If you are trying to fit a genuine Murena electric window system, there is a knack to how it fits, and you don't need to cut any of the inner door glass fibre which I have seen some people do.  That only weakens the door structure anyway, and is unnecessary.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 12, 2019, 01:41:24 pm
Hi Roy,

Not too sure if you remember but the original had had electric windows fitted which didnt work. The drivers door window was held up with a piece of wood when i took the  panal off (all those years ago) they are original Matra regulater and motor however the regulators have been messed about with and the doors fibreglass has been hacked with a hacksaw and parts of it are held together with cable ties!!!!! I managed to get motors and regulkators from a Renault 9 but the regulators are different. Am sure that with alot of patience i can get them working and mounted but it is sould destroying. I am at work at the moment (yes I do occasionally)
will see if I can upload some photos later. :)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 12, 2019, 06:01:46 pm
This is the sorry state of the doors!
The first two pictures are the current drivers door which had the window held up by a lump of wood!
The third the passenger side and the last one is a spare drivers door!
Was thinking of fabricating  a new panel from sheet steel and riveting it to what is left of the interior. As you can see the door support where the handle goes when you pul to shut the door has also been cut. I do have another two of these but they are different to the current ones fitted to EOW.
As my spare isn't too bad apart from the large crack and the small section cut out I may have no option but to swap it over but I am always dubious about removing door pins as when I did it to my old Baggy half the "A" section crumbled away and that will not solve the problem of the dodgy actuator!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 27, 2019, 07:05:14 pm
Drivers side electric window is now working. I made a steel plate to reinforce (repair) the plastic part. Unfortunatly I forgot to take photos of the finished article before fitting! but it works well. However I have a problem with the passenger side. I think I have a broken wire somewhere.
The motor works freely from the drivers switch but will only go one way from the passenger switch. I have swapped motors and all the switches around but it still refuses to go in both directions!!!!!! Totally flumped!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on August 28, 2019, 02:24:09 pm
Drivers side electric window is now working. I made a steel plate to reinforce (repair) the plastic part. Unfortunatly I forgot to take photos of the finished article before fitting! but it works well. However I have a problem with the passenger side. I think I have a broken wire somewhere.
The motor works freely from the drivers switch but will only go one way from the passenger switch. I have swapped motors and all the switches around but it still refuses to go in both directions!!!!!! Totally flumped!!!!

If you check my wiring diagram, you will see that BOTH drivers and passenger door switches for the passenger door window, have to be in good condition for the window motor to work.  It may sound odd, but the power to the passenger door switch comes from the circuit board (green plug pin 6) but the 'earth' goes all the way back across to the drivers door switch first and then to the real earth.  So there is no direct earth at the passenger door.  Also when you press the drivers door switch to operate the passenger window the power now comes from the drivers door switch 3B, (circuit board green plug pin 3) NOT the passenger one!  Therefore you cannot easily test the motor using the wires in the passenger door alone.

Again referring to the wiring diagram, the two wires to the motor itself are initially dead, and when one of the switches is operated the power will go to one side of the motor and the other will connect to earth.  If you reverse the switch to operate the motor the opposite way, the power and earth are switched over to make the motor operate the other way.  So either wire can be power or earth depending on how the switch is operated.  The reason the earth goes back through the drivers door switches are to prevent any shorting.  Suppose the passenger switch was operated for the 'down' direction just as the drivers switch was operated for the up direction - you could be connecting power to earth directly and cause a short circuit!  But because the drivers door switch is the route to earth for the passenger door switch, that cannot happen.  Once the drivers door switch is operated the passenger door switch looses its route to earth and you cannot get a short.

Now since we know your passenger window will operate 'freely' as you put it, from the drivers door switch (and I assume that means up and down?) then we know that provided no-one has altered the wiring from the original, then all the wiring between the drivers door and the and passenger door switches appears to be good, and also between the passenger door and the passenger door motor is fine.  The circuit would be this: drivers door power 3B to 35Y across to passenger switch 35Y then to 35X and to motor, and the motor 37X back to passenger switch and then 37Y back to drivers switch 37Y and finally to earth 110B.  To go in the opposite direction we have 3B to 37Y to 37X to motor and motor 35X to switches 35Y to earth 110B.

From the passenger door switch the circuits would be this: power 3A to 35X to motor, and motor 37X to 37Y back to drivers door and to earth 110B; or for the opposite direction 3A to 37X to motor, and motor 35X to 35Y to earth 110B again via drivers door.

Since the operation from the drivers door you say is good both up and down, we know the circuits across the car must be good and also the wiring to the motor must be good.  A process of elimination says that only leaves the fault to be in one of the two switches that were connected for operation of the passenger door window.

So connect all three switches one after the other to the drivers door window motor and check the operation of the drivers door window up and down.  With one of the switches, it should only go one way and that will be the faulty switch.  You might ask 'why test the switches on the drivers door window?' and the reason is simply that window only requires one switch and has direct wiring so eliminates any other complication.

The only other possible way this fault could result, is if someone has altered the wiring from the standard original wiring, and I would have to know exactly what has been done to try to work it out.  Since the system has been apart before by someone who doesn't understand it (witness the damage done to the doors) this possible wiring alteration is certainly a possibility!

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on August 28, 2019, 07:47:26 pm
Thanks gain Roy. I will start by ordering new switches. Just bit of curiosity....eow is the one that had manual windows and i  checked your diagram , It says that all wiring going into the doors was optional but eow has what looks like original wiring for the motors and switches. Either it had a conversion to manual previously or someone fitted all the wires but they do all look original


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on September 03, 2019, 10:58:43 pm
Thanks gain Roy. I will start by ordering new switches. Just bit of curiosity....eow is the one that had manual windows and i  checked your diagram , It says that all wiring going into the doors was optional but eow has what looks like original wiring for the motors and switches. Either it had a conversion to manual previously or someone fitted all the wires but they do all look original

First Terry, I do have some new switches if you haven't already ordered some.

Second, that is interesting that they should fit the door electric window wiring even though it was not going to be used.  That is like the fact that all Murena have the wiring in the rear loom for a right hand rear fog lamp, yet the lamps did not have the parts in them, and they never officially sold them to any RHD market like the UK where it was actually required, so it was superfluous.  Matra obviously weren't as cost conscious as someone like Ford who would never have 'wasted' money like that!  :)

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on September 04, 2019, 12:35:37 pm
If that's the original number or an age-related one then it must be very early.  My early Murena doesn't have the wiring for electric windows.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 04, 2019, 06:39:04 pm
Hi Roy / Pete
Have ordered 4 new or replacement switches.
I think it is an early one because inside the doors it was originally the gold colour and it has the early identification chassis number which dates it as "manufactured" late 1980 early 81. ( X5 551 BX......  1981 MODEL). Think that's right!
I did the check you advised Roy and two of my switches were ok and two broken! sods law.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 21, 2019, 01:40:38 pm
For those of you not yet bored with my "doings", ....a question!
When does a solution become a bodge???
As you may remember I have been tying to fit electric windows to eow. The actuators being from a Renault 9 didn't fit in that the outer tube the flexible control arm slides through was too long making the mounting of the motor impossible.
I had already made an upper support and riveted this to the actuator to add additional support and the only way of positioning the motor was to cut a section of the outer tube off.
This enabled the motor to be positioned in the right place but when the window reached the top the tubes just pushed apart.
After thinking of how to permanently join the two ends for several weeks, I came upon the idea of using a 10mm "push fit" gas connector.
The electric window now works perfectly (courtesy of the new switches) am absolutely delighted.......on to the next side :)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: murramor on September 21, 2019, 02:50:09 pm
If it's a bodge, It's a neat one!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on September 22, 2019, 07:02:15 am
If it's a bodge, It's a neat one!

Absolutely - that's brilliant!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on February 24, 2020, 06:24:57 pm
sorry Anders, but I did say I liked your wheels! ;)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on March 01, 2020, 06:03:17 pm
This may take some time!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on March 03, 2020, 05:54:08 pm
Centre seat completed! I removed the original cover and sewed the parts that go through the sponge so I could get a better contour.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on March 07, 2020, 08:12:22 am
Centre seat completed! I removed the original cover and sewed the parts that go through the sponge so I could get a better contour.

That middle seat looks really good! Have you replaced any foam or was the old one good enough to preserve? And I like your wheels! :D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on March 07, 2020, 08:43:40 am
Thanks Anders.  The foam was in good nick. However you can see the drivers seat has a little damage where the frame has come through and torn the foam but i think i have had a good idea how to repair it. Should get around to it next week.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 05, 2020, 03:48:34 pm
Finished drivers seat (minus runners) this took ages partly due to the sponge crumbling and having to repair.
on a different note My front side lights flash very faintly with the indicators, when sidelights are on and I use indicators they flash brightly in time with indicators, to me it sounds like a bad earth but I have checked and rechecked and cannot find a problem , any ideas anyone?


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: JL on April 05, 2020, 08:08:44 pm
I think you are still correct with the bad earth, try running an earth wire directly to your battery.

Good luck.
John


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 05, 2020, 09:13:56 pm
Thanks JL. I did think ot that but couldnt find a wire long enough. And had to think about getting stuff ready for work tomoz. Next day off wed so will have a better look


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 09, 2020, 03:23:34 pm
No wonder It needed bleeding!!! now just got to find out what car it belongs to as every 1.9 pug engine I've looked at has a cable clutch!!!
And thanks JL, Lights sorted it was indeed an earth fault :)
 


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 10, 2020, 06:28:30 pm
So after hrs of searching i think i have identified it as a Delphi LL2115. On the listing it interestingly lists applications as Horizon , Matra Rancho and Murena 1.6! Quite how you mount it in a standard Murena I dont know. I have ordered one so here's hoping. It should be correct as the horizon I discovered uses the same gearbox I have being  a BE1 XU30 with a hydraulic clutch rather than cable or concentric slave cylinder and a bore 25.4mm. Fingers crossed.


Talbot Horizon -- [1978-1986] Hatchback 1.1 (1118ccm 58HP 43KW Petrol)
Engine Code: 2E1A
Talbot Horizon -- [1978-1986] Hatchback 1.3 (1294ccm 54HP 40KW Petrol)
Engine Code: 2G1-BTC | Manufactured Before: 12/ 1985
Talbot Horizon -- [1978-1986] Hatchback 1.3 (1294ccm 58HP 43KW Petrol)
Engine Code: 2G1-BTC
Talbot Horizon -- [1978-1986] Hatchback 1.3 (1294ccm 64HP 47KW Petrol)
Talbot Horizon -- [1978-1986] Hatchback 1.3 (1294ccm 68HP 50KW Petrol)
Engine Code: 2G1
Talbot Horizon -- [1978-1986] Hatchback 1.4 (1424ccm 65HP 48KW Petrol)
Engine Code: 2Y1B
Talbot Horizon -- [1978-1986] Hatchback 1.4 (1424ccm 83HP 61KW Petrol)
Engine Code: 2Y2,Y2 | Manufactured Before: 12/ 1985
Talbot Horizon -- [1978-1986] Hatchback 1.4 (1442ccm 69HP 51KW Petrol)
Engine Code: 2Y1 | Manufactured Before: 12/ 1985
Talbot Murena -- [1980-1985] Coupe 1.6 (1577ccm 90HP 66KW Petrol)
Engine Code: X5J2A | Manufactured Before: 12/ 1983
Talbot Rancho -- [1977-1984] SUV 1.4 (1442ccm 80HP 59KW Petrol)
Engine Code: X3Y2 | Manufactured After: 1/ 1978
Talbot Simca 1100 -- [1968-1980] Estate 1.1 (1118ccm 50HP 37KW Petrol)
Engine Code: E1/BTC | Manufactured Before: 12/ 1979
Talbot Simca 1100 -- [1968-1980] Estate 1.1 (1118ccm 60HP 44KW Petrol)
Engine Code: 3E1A
Talbot Simca 1100 -- [1968-1980] Hatchback 1.1 LE,LX,GLS,ES (1118ccm 50HP 37KW Petrol)
Engine Code: 30 | Manufactured Before: 12/ 1979
Talbot Simca 1100 -- [1968-1980] Hatchback 1.1 LE,LX,GLS,ES (1118ccm 58HP 43KW Petrol)
Engine Code: 3E1A | Manufactured Before: 12/ 1979
Talbot Simca 1100 -- [1968-1980] Hatchback 1.1 LS,GLS (1118ccm 54HP 40KW Petrol)
Engine Code: E1/BTC | Manufactured After: 1/ 1976
Talbot Solara -- [1980-1986] Saloon 1.3 (1294ccm 54HP 40KW Petrol)
Engine Code: 6G1D/VP
Talbot Solara -- [1980-1986] Saloon 1.6 (1577ccm 88HP 65KW Petrol)
Engine Code: 6J2,J1,J2
Talbot Solara -- [1980-1986] Saloon 1.6 (1592ccm 69HP 51KW Petrol)
Engine Code: J1B
Talbot Solara -- [1980-1986] Saloon 1.6 (1592ccm 73HP 54KW Petrol)
Engine Code: 6J1
Talbot Solara -- [1980-1986] Saloon 1.6 (1592ccm 90HP 66KW Petrol)
Engine Code: J1B

 


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on April 14, 2020, 01:33:25 am
So after hrs of searching i think i have identified it as a Delphi LL2115. On the listing it interestingly lists applications as Horizon , Matra Rancho and Murena 1.6! Quite how you mount it in a standard Murena I dont know...

The clutch slave cylinder on a Horizon, Bagheera, Murena 1.6, or any of the models using those 4-speed original gearboxes and the 5-speed version of them, is bolted near the top of the bell housing with two short bolts.

This is quite different to a Murena 2.2 where its bell housing has a cast 'hole' near the bottom, and its clutch slave cylinder simply slides into that casting and is secured by a large circlip where it sticks out the other side of the casting.


Quote
I have ordered one so here's hoping. It should be correct as the horizon I discovered uses the same gearbox I have being  a BE1 XU30 with a hydraulic clutch rather than cable or concentric slave cylinder and a bore 25.4mm. Fingers crossed.

I don't know the bell housing for your BE1 XU30, but if it doesn't have the two shoulders and tapped holes for the original Murena slave cylinder, then you will have to use the one designed for it.  However, from your photos, the slave cylinder looks correct, but the attachment of the pipe from the master cylinder is all wrong!  You should have a plastic pipe with a metal supporting sleeve in the end, and that fits directly into the slave cylinder with a flare 12mm nut.

Your photo shows a banjo and banjo bolt in the slave cylinder, with a section of rubber hose and four worm clips fitted, which suggests the original plastic pipe end has been changed.  That is your real fault.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 14, 2020, 10:46:22 am
Morning Roy,
As you may remember from last year I was convinced all my problems were the master cylinder which I replaced and eventually managed to bleed. The clutch all seemed good but was back on the floor again! after inspection it became clear why by the sorry state of the slave cylinder. I presumed that the 1.6 slave cylinder was also held on by a circlip, (again I should have checked)
Not having an original engine is becoming a bit of a pain as I have now moved onto this area. I "believe" after spending literally hrs online That I have an XU92C 1.9l engine as it has a single twin choke carb, This engine is listed at (depending where you look) 104 - 108bhp! which makes me wonder if the effort was worth it. The 32/34 dtrc carb is listed from a 1.6 citreon BX, trying to find a choke assembly is shall we say difficult! The gearbox,XU30, is listed from a Citreon Berlingo 1.9l diesel and Horizon 1.9 Diesel! Obviously they must have been fitted elsewhere but as yet that's all I can find, but it is the gear ratios I am most concerned about, being diesels they rev very low!.
The gearbox does indeed have the slave cylinder bolted to the bell housing and the plastic pipe was pushed into a rubber pipe fitted to the banjo and then secured by using the 4 jubilee clips to form a seal.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 18, 2020, 07:10:15 pm
As I am still waiting for my clutch slave cylinder to arrive I thought I would press on with the door cards. Taking a lot longer than I anticipated and not quite finished!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 20, 2020, 01:18:52 pm
The clutch slave cylinder arrived and is the correct one complete with the little rubber seal and washer. Problem is As the original plastic pipe from the master cylinder had been hacked about it no longer reaches and I dont have the correct nut to mate it to the cylinder anyway. Simons appears to be out of stock of this pipe! I have found that the plastic type of pipe was fitted to MG's Fords and others but not in the required length so I must be able to get them somewhere. Has anyone got any ideas?
For anyone interested its a Delphi LL21115 and cost 23 from ebay (not LL2115 as I earlier listed). Again I checked Simons prices and it is out of stock so cant check his prices.
Finished the first door card. I decided not to do the piece around the electric window switch. It has come up very well, it is straight its just the shadows making it look odd.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: JL on April 21, 2020, 05:28:47 pm
A bit of a long shot but I wonder if these guys can make something to help you?

https://www.northwestclassic.co.uk/

Regards
John


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on April 21, 2020, 07:10:33 pm
The tube is a standard 8mm OD plastic tube.  I bought a length off the roll from Walkers Rubber & Plastic in Ipswich.  The nut may present a bit more of a problem, but you could try Past Parts of Bury St. Edminds.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 21, 2020, 07:32:54 pm
Thanks for the lead gents. Ordered a 5m length in yellow. They did t have white but only a tenner. Now for the bolt to the slave cylinder.  ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 21, 2020, 08:33:23 pm
The tube is a standard 8mm OD plastic tube.  I bought a length off the roll from Walkers Rubber & Plastic in Ipswich.  The nut may present a bit more of a problem, but you could try Past Parts of Bury St. Edminds.

Just cancelled my order. Surely it cant be 8mm ?


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: MatraIan on April 21, 2020, 09:07:21 pm
I have a 2.2S with original nylon pipe and that pipe is 7mm O/d.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 21, 2020, 09:16:57 pm
Think your right just stuck a vernier on mine. Nice one.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: MatraIan on April 21, 2020, 09:31:46 pm
See this link for how it should be
http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,2918.msg22179.html#msg22179
(This is how 2.2 is set up so assuming 1.6 was the same)
if you are using a nylon tube the metal insert is improtant to stop the tube being squashed.
Ian


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: murramor on April 21, 2020, 11:26:39 pm
Wouldn't it be easier to make up a normal metal brake pipe with a short flexible hose at the rear by the engine?  I would think that the threads in the master cylinder and the slave cylinder would be the same as in the braking system?


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 22, 2020, 06:03:14 pm
Wouldn't it be easier to make up a normal metal brake pipe with a short flexible hose at the rear by the engine?  I would think that the threads in the master cylinder and the slave cylinder would be the same as in the braking system?

I had thought about that but a problem appears to be the engine rocking on the mounts (could) eventually lead to the pipe fracturing. I think this may be why Matra went with a flexible "tube"
I think I can get the pipe inserts easily enough, they appear pretty common and they have loads of types on fleabay. As for the size it could be 7mm or it could be 8mm!!! I measured it in different places and got differing sizes!(could just be my old eyes). As for the securing nut to the slave, again you could be correct, however as most places are doing "bang up" Its not easy to find somewhere open where I could take the slave cylinder and say "what size?"
I suppose I could see it the master cylinder thread is the same but again I would still need to know the size!
On a positive note got my tyres for the wheels fitted :)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 25, 2020, 09:12:31 am
Flare nuts arrived! Roy listed the size above. Thanks Roy. Next day off Thursday cant wait!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on April 25, 2020, 09:22:13 am
Wouldn't it be easier to make up a normal metal brake pipe with a short flexible hose at the rear by the engine?  I would think that the threads in the master cylinder and the slave cylinder would be the same as in the braking system?

Not quite Terry.

You can indeed use a normal brake type tubing, and is what I plan on my own car, but although you would use the same 4.75mm copper nickel as you do for the braking system, the threaded holes in the master and slave cylinders are not the normal M10x1.00 but are actually M12x1.00 mm!  This is to allow for the larger plastic pipe (7mm o/d as stated).

So you need special flare nuts that are M12x1.00 but with only a 4.75 mm hole for the pipe.  Also you have the problem that the seat for the normal nipple end of the pipe is not in the master or slave cylinders.  These have been made to suit the plastic pipe and rubber seal, so the bore inside has a flat surface instead of a conical face.

An alternative is to use some thread adapters from M12x1.00 down to M10x1.00 and then make up the brake pipes as normal - except that whilst all the brake pipes have metric DIN flare ends, the only thread adapters I can find here, have conical bubble seats, so you would have to make this pipe up with SAE bubble flare ends.

As for the flexibility required, obviously some are too young (or older ones have forgotten) how we used to fasten capillary water temperature gauges and oil pressure gauge pipes when these were mechanical not electric!  You don't need a flexible section - you simply make a couple of circles of the tubing approx 50mm dia. between the last fixing point of the pipe and where it fastens to the slave cylinder!  These couple of coils allow the small movement necessary without stressing the tubing.

(and Matra used a plastic pipe not for flexibility which we always knew how to cope with, but for cheapness - everything done that is worse today, is to reduce costs!)

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 25, 2020, 04:46:13 pm
Thanks Roy. By the way I  ome in to the "too young" catagory. I had read about putting some loops into a metal pipe but was rold that these could eventually fracture too. I was scepticle as as far as i knew most cars have metal pipes.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on April 26, 2020, 01:13:42 am
Thanks Roy. By the way I  ome in to the "too young" catagory. I had read about putting some loops into a metal pipe but was rold that these could eventually fracture too. I was scepticle as as far as i knew most cars have metal pipes.

The copper nickel piping is too soft to have a problem with a couple of coils and some flexing even if it work hardened with age, and that would probably take longer than the number of years we have left with petrol engines! :)  Even with the firmer capillary tubing we used to use, I've never had or seen one fracture.  As long as the coils are about mid-point between last fixing and slave cylinder, and oriented for the direction of movement likely, it will be fine.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 26, 2020, 08:47:30 am
That could be the problem then. So am I  correct in thinking with a metal pipe ( and using the Murena as an example) the pipe.would.have to leave the slave.cylinder at 90 deg  have the coils in it and then another 90 deg bend to exit the engine bay to able to flex as the engine rocked back and forth? Maks sense now


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on April 26, 2020, 11:53:35 am
That could be the problem then. So am I  correct in thinking with a metal pipe ( and using the Murena as an example) the pipe.would.have to leave the slave.cylinder at 90 deg  have the coils in it and then another 90 deg bend to exit the engine bay to able to flex as the engine rocked back and forth? Maks sense now

Well I don't know exactly how the positions, orientations and connections are on yours as you have a Peugeot unit rather than the Matra/Citroen transmission of the original Murena, and I am also more familiar with the 2.2 than the 1.6 where the slave cylinders are totally different and differently situated on the transmission, but if you think about it, the engine transmission will try to rock rotationally (although if the bushes are good, it should be well controlled) so if the pipe is at the top of the bell housing and the pipe clipped to the chassis further forward, it will want to expand or contract longitudinally along the car front to back.  So if the coils are oriented with the input and output of the coils also along that line, as the powertrain rocks the coils can open or close slightly to accommodate that movement.

I hope that makes sense as it is almost more difficult to describe than to fit! :)

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 26, 2020, 12:18:31 pm
LOL got it Roy,
New wheels on EOW with 185/55/14 tyres front and 195/60/14 at the rear..............the end is in sight  ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on April 26, 2020, 02:04:04 pm
OK.........so I've taken a day off...place will still be there tomorrow!
The other door card ready to fit, its hot out there!
Has anyone got a good idea on a steering wheel. Photos, if I need a boss, what make etc? Would appreciate it.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 08, 2020, 02:13:54 pm
Finally fitted the new clutch slave cylinder, all the new pipeing (yes its blue) and bled the system. Works fine. The pushrod comes out at a funny angel due to the indent on the actuating arm being a little further out. This, as far as I know didnt effect the old cylinder working so shouldnt be a problem. I have enough of the plastic pipe to do the job about 5 times over as it came in a roll as I couldnt find 7mm by the metre. Alot can be said for it being bolted on and not held in with a circlip ;) lol. But it was still a right pain to reach and undo.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 08, 2020, 03:00:29 pm
Congrats! Blue piping looks good, I think :)

That angle sure looks strange. The pushrod is round on the ends, but I'm thinking that at this angle there might be a risk of it causing damage to the outer seal over time? I'm guessing. Lennart has the same engine and gearbox, as far as I know, so maybe we can get him to take a picture of his.

/Anders


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 08, 2020, 08:41:08 pm
Thats what I thought Anders. When I was lying under it looking at the old one before removal, I couldnt help but think that surely it couldnt be correct. I also thought that maybe it had been fitted wrong! I would have thought that it should have been infront of the mounting and not behind. That way all the force is transfered to the mounting on the gear box and not just the two bolts. I am going to have another look in the morning, have been trying to sort out the dash warning lights today and routing the blue pipe, bleeding the system took a while but it does all appear to be funtioning correctly.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 09, 2020, 12:02:12 pm
ok so I removed the slave cylinder and put it to where I thought it should be. It was pretty clear why it had been placed behind the mounting points! Took about 3hrs since 7 this morning. The rod is now straight and lines up with the indent on the actuating arm, However, the dust seal now touches the actuating arm. Should be ok.
So I admit it..................Maybe a circlip isnt so bad!!!!  ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 09, 2020, 01:16:04 pm
Totally off any topic but thought I'd share. Back in the day. A good friend sent me these the other day. Think it must be 81, 82 Me on the left Andy on the right. First delve into the world of Matra. Andy is currently restoring a series 2 Baggy, (and others)
Wonder what ever happened to her?


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 10, 2020, 07:55:45 am
Totally off any topic but thought I'd share. Back in the day. A good friend sent me these the other day. Think it must be 81, 82 Me on the left Andy on the right. First delve into the world of Matra. Andy is currently restoring a series 2 Baggy, (and others)
Wonder what ever happened to her?

Great pictures fra another era! Two young men looking handsome and very busy in jeans, leather jackets and 80's haircuts. You must have attracted some ladies with that car and those looks :D

ok so I removed the slave cylinder and put it to where I thought it should be. It was pretty clear why it had been placed behind the mounting points! Took about 3hrs since 7 this morning. The rod is now straight and lines up with the indent on the actuating arm, However, the dust seal now touches the actuating arm. Should be ok.
So I admit it..................Maybe a circlip isnt so bad!!!!  ;D

That looks so much better! Circilips are fine - if you remember to fit them the right way around and grease the housing well when fitting :) Congrats!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 10, 2020, 09:49:19 am
LOL any hair would be good these days!
I am trying to find somewhere to reproduce the vin plates.
Can anyone advise me of the wording?
Also what do the numbers on the bottom right signify? was thinking year and build possibly? (80/4164)
(Cant see anyone trying to clone it)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Lennart Sorth on May 10, 2020, 03:47:27 pm
Also what do the numbers on the bottom right signify? was thinking year and build possibly? (80/4164)

Not that it explains the 80/4164 - but mine has the same numbers, and it is a year "D" (i.e. "1983") - see:  http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Murena/Gallery1/Med/mu_vin_02.html (http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Murena/Gallery1/Med/mu_vin_02.html). Maybe the 80/4164 is some sort of design code?

Glad you sorted your clutch slave cylinder, - gently poked by Anders, I wanted to go and take a picture of mine, but forgot, and now it is too cold for such pleasures :-)

/Lennart



Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 10, 2020, 05:01:21 pm
Thanks Lennart.
I just had a look at my other plate and the top numbers are missing! it could be the approval type?
I understand you have the same engine, 1.9 pug. Still not sure exactly what vehicle it came from, 205 / 309 / 505. But I am certain I have a BE1 XU 30 box. It has first reverse next to first and XU 30 stamped on the box. All 205 gearboxes I have read about (205 forum) had a cable operated clutch. The engine has 8 valves and a single carb making it a XU92C engine with 108bhp.
Yes the clutch gave me "issues" I thought it couldnt be right but that was how the old one was fitted! Think I needed a bit of reassurance before taking it off again. It was a right pain to fit correctly as it only just fitted which could be why it was fitted incorrectly. Definatly light at the end of the tunnel, Been doing a few little bits of trim today, have ordered my black / red "MATRA" floor mats, ccouldnt believe the price!!!! Got to fit the seats and find a steering wheel, Oh and I better check the engine goes!!!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on May 12, 2020, 10:45:19 am
If your 1.9 engine has a carburettor, then it came from an early 405 and would have had a cable clutch.  I had one of these cars new.  I can't recall what the gear positions were but I do remember that it had a cable interlock for reverse that required you to lift a collar on the gear lever to engage it.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 12, 2020, 01:09:54 pm
Thanks Pete. Must be a different Box as it has a hydraulic clutch. BE1 XU30. Dont have to lift or do anything to engage reverse, just push it over and up next to first. I may put a gate of some discription in as it is a bit "wishy washy2 but may just need a good adjustment to the linkages.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Lennart Sorth on May 12, 2020, 05:19:18 pm
FWIW, my engine is a XU9JA/K from a Peug 205 1.9 gti, 8valve.
My reverse is also to the left of first, but Matraagic (Bristol, UK who did the conversion for me) created this lovely spring loaded bar which eliminates embarrassing moments at the lights :-)

http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Murena/Conv/P1.9i-8v-ls/Med/rev_spring.html  (http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Murena/Conv/P1.9i-8v-ls/Med/rev_spring.html)

/L


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 12, 2020, 06:12:06 pm
Thats ace. I think I could.make.one of those


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on May 12, 2020, 08:13:25 pm
I would imagine that any number of XU engine/gearbox combinations are possible.  Later Peugeots and Citroens used hydraulic clutches on RHD models due to the length of cable from the clutch pedal to the gearbox.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 12, 2020, 10:18:48 pm
True.have done countless.hrs of research mainly because i want to change cam belt and water   pump as has been standing for ages. Thanks to the info i now.know it is either a 405gt or a.309 gt. Also need.dizzy cap.points etc. Think installing a 1.9 injection may be beyond me but may get a price.on it.as  i would prefer.more.than 104-108 bhp


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 14, 2020, 02:14:31 pm
The drivers side door card fitted! The Gold strip is where I removed a thin layer of rubber wind proofing. It shows (at the top) the original gold colour and then sticky adhesive. I will have to get another strip of this to hide it. I positioned the door card before re covering to make new fasteners that fix it to the door and re drilled the fixing holes. I used fasteners from a BMW as I thought they would be a good quality. I fixed the fasteners through the door card, ensured they all lined up and then re covered the door card. Think it came up well.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 15, 2020, 04:14:22 pm
That is immaculate! Wow! :o


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 15, 2020, 07:59:21 pm
Thanks Anders appreciate it. Have spent all day getting all the warning lights on the dash to work. Just one to go....the battery light!!!!!  :P. Can only find one wire coming from the alternator so havnet got a clue. Hopefully try to start her tomorrov (no petrol in her) and then fit the seats.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 15, 2020, 09:56:49 pm
Thanks Anders appreciate it. Have spent all day getting all the warning lights on the dash to work. Just one to go....the battery light!!!!!  :P. Can only find one wire coming from the alternator so havnet got a clue. Hopefully try to start her tomorrov (no petrol in her) and then fit the seats.

I think all original alternators had regulators with two wires: One for ignition and the other for the light. Other versions of the regulator only have the wire for the light on the dash, and the regulator is then initially powered through the bulb.

Good luck!!!

/Anders


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: suffolkpete on May 16, 2020, 12:11:30 pm
I've never come across a two-wire connection to the regulator.  The normal arrangement is for one side of the warning light to be powered from the ignition live and the other to the alternator.  When the ignition is turned on the the circuit is completed via the alternator and the current energises the field winding (the rotor) of the alternator until the speed has risen sufficiently for the alternator output to provide sufficient field current at which point the light will go out and the alternator will be charging.  Try earthing the wire at the alternator end with the ignition on.  If the warning light is lit then the fault lies within the alternator.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 16, 2020, 12:15:36 pm
The only wire I could find that was connected went to the starter! The resistor behind the dash is still there and it works as I measured the resistance across it and it was 84.2 and I distinctly remember that the light has been working. I just checked out connection block under the bonnet and found this! so I am hoping that it is causing (or contributing) to the failure, so this will be todays job. LOL. I have also taken the liberty of ordering a small volt meter which I will fit in the consul I will be making. Think I may make half a consul as its neither a 1.6 so shouldnt have one or a 2.2 and has a full one!!!  ;D


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 16, 2020, 07:47:26 pm
So I replaced all the connections but it didnt work, however my H/R/W now works!  ;D I then moved onto the Grey connections which contain the alternator circuit and they were almost as bad. Replaced them all still no joy,   :'( . Then onto the engine bay electrics (what a mess), eventually traced it to the earth wire from the alternator which I couldnt see without getting my head "right up there" which I found half a "crimp" on the end but no wire! Eventually found said wire hiding within a bunch of about 10 wires nor connected to anything. Re-connected and:- voila!!!!!
certain its fixed but when I tried to start her it wouldnt go!!!! After 10 mins traced it to the fuel pump which was "whirring" like a good un but not pumping anything, took it off and its def not pumping, so now waiting for a new fuel pump, but very happy:-


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on May 19, 2020, 08:14:26 am
LOL any hair would be good these days!
I am trying to find somewhere to reproduce the vin plates.
Can anyone advise me of the wording?
Also what do the numbers on the bottom right signify? was thinking year and build possibly? (80/4164)
(Cant see anyone trying to clone it)


Sorry haven't been in here for a week now owing to other matters, but there is a company in France that can reproduce Matra chassis plates - at least for the Murena and Espace Series 1 (1984-1991) - and maybe other models?  They are spot-on copies of the original except for the specific numbers which are engraved in with a machine rather than stamped in.

I had a new one for my Espace Quadra as those early Espace plates are prone to rot around the RH fixing where there is an interaction between the steel and alloy.  The new plate was good.  I'm not sure if they do a Bagheera plate but anyone requiring one could easily ask them.

I'll have to look up their details again as it was a while ago, but you'll see I posted an answer to the Replica ID chassis plates topic in the Espace section when Terry in the U.S.A. needed a new plate for his Espace.


Correction to this paragraph:
As for the 80/4164 code on the Murena plate, I originally believed that was the code that was used to obtain the correct parts where there has been a change point.  However, the item is a P.V.A. number, except  I don't know what these letters stand for.  Does anyone who speaks French know what they might be?  Just a thought, it could be a vehicle type approval number - Peugeot Vehicle Approval maybe, although since Peugeot weren't involved when the Bagheera was made and I believe that had the P.V.A. number too, I doubt the 'P' stands for Peugeot.  If these were the parts change numbers, the 80/4164 should have indicated the first model (1980) and the change point came after 4,164 vehicles.  My Murena which was a 1982 model year car, has 81/4039 on it, and I have seen that on others, which suggests the second change point would have been another 4039 chassis later.  But that would put it into the 1983 year build which was from C.8161 onwards.  So I'm fairly convinced now it has something to do with a type approval number.

So all '81 and '82 Murena model years should have one of those two numbers.  1983 probably have no number as they made no further changes. (supposedly!)  So when you see a part in the original microfiche that could be one of two or three, depending on whether it is before or after a change point, this would be the number the parts department would have needed.

As for the kg numbers near the bottom of your plate, the first (1260kg) is the max. gross vehicle weight allowed with passengers, fuel, boot full etc.  The next figure (1910kg) is the max. gross train weight when a trailer is attached, so the trailer could be up to 650kg).  The bottom two figures are the max. front (560kg) and rear (900kg) axle loadings allowed.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on May 19, 2020, 08:52:40 am
I've never come across a two-wire connection to the regulator.

Then you haven't seen a 2.2 with an original Paris-Rhone alternator Peter! :)

These all has two wires to the voltage regulator, and one was a positive wire whilst the other came from the warning light.  The wire from the warning light (red with a green marker) was the normal alternator type connection, initially activating the alternator and then taking the output back to balance the warning light voltage both sides so it went out.  The second wire with a smaller connection was the ignition wire (grey with a red marker) which the Paris-Rhone needed for some reason I never figured out.  The two connections were in a single black plastic plug that fitted the alternator voltage regulator.  No other alternator I've ever come across ever needed an ignition feed but these did otherwise they wouldn't work.

But this is only on the 2.2 model.  The 1.6 models only had the normal arrangement with just one wire from the warning light (red wire, green marker).  Both models, on the early versions at least, also had a red wire with yellow marker on the alternator (circuit '8'), but this was simply a connection up to the diagnostic socket pin 12, so that the alternator could be checked remotely.  Check my diagrams!


As for testing, Peter is quite correct, simply touch the warning light wire at the alternator end to earth and if the warning light comes on, the bulb and circuit are fine, so the fault is probably the voltage regulator but definitely with the alternator somewhere.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on May 19, 2020, 09:03:16 am
The only wire I could find that was connected went to the starter! The resistor behind the dash is still there and it works as I measured the resistance across it and it was 84.2 and I distinctly remember that the light has been working. I just checked out connection block under the bonnet and found this! so I am hoping that it is causing (or contributing) to the failure...

No it is not Terry.  Since you have a different engine to the normal 1.6 Murena, my wiring diagram that you have does not have any engine loom as I have no idea what modifications have been done to it by fitting the Peugeot engine.

However, if you check at the front of the diagram you will see that the alternator warning light wire red with green marker (circuit '9') goes through the grey plug CC6 on the LH side of the car.  That yellow plug is CC2 on the RH side of the car, and the things that pass through it are the signal (5) and large red main feed (3C) to the H.R.W. relay which is the common one that rots!  So that rotted green mess will only prevent your H.R.W. working.  The others are the electronic dipstick wires (97 B & C), and the fuel sender wires (92 and 93).

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 19, 2020, 10:35:00 am
Thanks Roy, I use your digram upto the engine bay, but beyond that not a lot makes sense to me as the wires in the bay are a bit "hit and miss" I knew the yellow connector should be for the fuel sender and H/R/W but as its a mess who knew where it went. The H/R/W now works as does the fuel sender and fuel light. I was also aware that the grey connector contained the alternator circuit and these were also very bad so I thought I would replace both. When tracing a fault I always begin where the fault manifests itself and work backwards so bulb, dash circuit, connectors and alternator.
 I am not too sure the battery guage is functional so I am making a centre consul which will contain a switch for the fuel pump, fan overide switch, voltmeter (small accurate digital one) and a usb charger for phones (got to keep up with the times.) and associated warning lights. I am making it so it can easily be removed and it will have a main feed from the ignition going to a small fusebox built into the consul for the associated switches and warning lights. The idea of the fuse box is so I will only need one power take off from the ignition swith so the consul can just be llifted out by disconnecting the one power wire. I have already completed the first consul but it didnt look in keeping with Matra. It looked too modern so not part of the design so I am now making mark 11. I would appreciate your input and ideas into the electrics.
 On a happier note I noticed that Matra Magic had a gearlever surround in black for my "Belgium" gear set up so have one on order. The marks indicating gear poistions obviously dont correspond to my gear positions but I cant have everything.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 19, 2020, 07:19:02 pm
Mark 11 went the same way as mark 1 ! Mark 3 is a third finished but it is at this stage that the first two ended in the bin but I am happy with how this one looks............so far! whether I will still be happy once I have made the rest of it and fitted the guages / switches and fuse box remains to be seen.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on May 27, 2020, 08:31:44 pm
Still not finished as I have been working last 7 days straight :( but I hope you can get the picture.
I still have to fit the usb charger, and fuel pump warning light and to the left of the switches will sit the emergency light lift handle.
Both centre sections can be lifted out to allow, at the front, document storage. and at the back the fuse box.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 16, 2020, 06:44:04 pm
Progress is painfully slow! but at least its progress!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: murramor on June 19, 2020, 02:02:30 am
Looking very good!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 20, 2020, 08:03:18 am
Progress is painfully slow! but at least its progress!

I am very impressed. The Murena interior is cosy, clean, and practical. I like the style you're adding!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 22, 2020, 06:06:20 pm
Thanks Anders.............Mark V consul, will stick with this one.
Moved the switches so I can reach them (always helps!)
Just need to find the size of the steering wheel bolt! anyone got any ideas?


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 22, 2020, 08:02:27 pm
Mark V consul, will stick with this one.

Mark V - sounds impressive. The console looks great too :)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 22, 2020, 09:30:30 pm
Will blame tbat one on auto spell....not


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on June 25, 2020, 06:42:58 pm
As I have to wait 3 weeks for my new carb I thought I would look at various nagging little things. One being a sticky drivers door unlock mechanism. When removing I discovered that the bolt at the bottom of the window runner which I thought was a support is in fact an adjuster to align the window runner. I wonder if all those problems with my window being stiff in the runner could have easily been cured by a slight adjustment!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 04, 2020, 07:03:33 pm
Not too sure anyone can help but def worth a go!
As you may all know EOW runs a pug 1.9 with a naffed carb! I have sourced a new carb (solex 32/34 Z1). to replace the webber that has lots of bits missing!
However the Solex comes with pieces That I dont recognise and there is no mention of in the manuals i have.
The carb came with a box containing a black cylinder, two screws a small length of tube and an adjuster screw.
The adjuster screw I have ascertained goes into the  "throttle valve opening device" and am assuming it connects to the carb using the tube to the front vacuum take off.
The black cylinder looks like it should be mounted at the rear of the carb but I havnt got a clue what it should do. if i stick a tube on it and blow or suck it doesnt do anything!!!!! and cant because it has only the one opening for a tube.
Has anyone got any ideas what it is or should do?
I realise that the carb is "generic" so it may bnot have a use for my engine!
Any help appreciated.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 08, 2020, 02:17:21 pm
I wired up the carb cut off and the breather solenoid and offered the carb up to the manifold! It didnt fit!! It was fouling on the intake manifold. I then looked closely and noted that the throttle spindle mechanism had been bolted on upside down at the factory.............................muppets!!!!. So I had to remove this and rotate 180 degrees.
It was also evident that the old carb had a cable adjuster welded onto it to hold the cable.
I have ordered new fuel pipes to replace the rubber ones and a throttle cable for a Renault Clio as its the cheapest one I could find that has the correct adjuster (they dont come seperately)
I will have to use a small dremil to open this to allow it to be fitted


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 09, 2020, 06:09:47 am
It looks like a more-than-expected complicated venture. Good luck! You mentioned the carb is "generic" - did you find any information on jets, venturis etc? I googled and found this that lists a number of different configurations for different Citroen engines - I think yours may be among them:

http://www.bxclub.cz/files/pdf/carb2.pdf

/Anders


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 09, 2020, 09:53:13 am
Morning Anders, thanks for the info. My "Pug 405 manual" didnt list the jet sizes. I specified it was for a 405 1.9 with an XU9 2C D2A which is the same as a Citreon BX 1.9 TRS, although that uses a 34/34 carb. I havnt checked the jets and in all honesty I am not going to. I dont like messing with carbs. To me they remain a magical mystery and I dont delve in to the mystical arts!.
It is a little more problematic than just bolting it on but I had thought that the old carb had an adjusted welded on to save a few quid. I keep telling myself that when it had its conversion back in the very early 90's (91 I THINK) the interweb was relatively new and it was a lot harder to source parts or find "work arounds" I just spend a couple or hrs on the computer searching for what I need or think could work. Keeps me busy.
PS you dont happen to know the steering wheel nut size do you? When I ordered my wheel and boss I forgot the nut!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on July 10, 2020, 08:03:59 pm
Not too sure anyone can help but def worth a go!
As you may all know EOW runs a pug 1.9 with a naffed carb! I have sourced a new carb (solex 32/34 Z1). to replace the webber that has lots of bits missing!
...
Any help appreciated.

I'm sorry you probably have an unsuitable carburettor for your 1.9 litre engine.

The Solex 32/34 Z1 is for the smaller capacity engines such as the 1.4 and 1.6 litre and has smaller primary and secondary venturis which will restrict the 1.9 litre engine.  The correct carburettor for a 1.9 litre engine would be the Solex 34/34 Z1 or Z2.  The 34/34 Z1 has 26 primary and 27 secondary venturis which will be able to satisfy the air demand of the larger engine.

The smaller Solex 32/34 Z1 will also have unsuitable jetting and emulsion tubes, and all would need changing, but since I suspect the venturis are cast in, and cannot be changed, changing the jetting would be a waste of time and it means the carbs. are unsuitable.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 10, 2020, 10:44:56 pm
That is not what I wanted to hear Roy!!!! :(
As you know I couldnt find a webber 32 /34 DRTC anywhere. This is what was fitted, so went for a solex equivalent which was also one of the carbs listed in my PUG 405 manual When I ordered it I did specify it was for a 405 1.9 XU92C engine but there are no casting marks on the carb so am assuming it is a 32/34 z1. I have just measured both barrels and they are both 34 so the plot thickens. I may have to get a different carb then, but will see what it runs like once (if) I ever get it running.
On a similar vane when I removed the 32/34 DRTC the manifold had a heat resister block and then a restrictor plate!!!!! Was seriously thinking of not fitting this back on, what do you think?


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on July 10, 2020, 11:24:04 pm
That is not what I wanted to hear Roy!!!! :(
As you know I couldnt find a webber 32 /34 DRTC anywhere. This is what was fitted, so went for a solex equivalent which was also one of the carbs listed in my PUG 405 manual When I ordered it I did specify it was for a 405 1.9 XU92C engine but there are no casting marks on the carb so am assuming it is a 32/34 z1. I have just measured both barrels and they are both 34 so the plot thickens. I may have to get a different carb then, but will see what it runs like once (if) I ever get it running.
On a similar vane when I removed the 32/34 DRTC the manifold had a heat resister block and then a restrictor plate!!!!! Was seriously thinking of not fitting this back on, what do you think?

First you can't measure the barrels and expect that to denote the specification in any way.  The venturi size is at the narrowest point down inside the carb, and if the venturis are cast in, then you will usually find the size cast on the outside of the carburettor casing, if you look carefully.  But even if the venturis are a particularr size, the jetting can vary to suit different engine specs. which is why all new carbs have a small tag attached to one of the casing screws with a coding which tells you exactly what the specification (all the venturis, jets, emulsion tubes, floats etc.) is for that particular version of the carb.  In the pages from the workshop manual I sent you, you will see that the Solex 32/34 comes in about 4 or 5 different specs. depending on whether it was fitted to a 1.4 or 1.6 and whether it had an auto box, or air con. etc.  There is never just one specification for a particular carburettor.

The figures you need first are the venturi sizes.  If these are correct then the exact jetting is the next things to check.

If you had checked my website and the FAQ about Solex carbs. for the Murena 2.2 you would have seen how the correct one was the 34 CICF 141 and that some people were sold a 34 CICF 161 which is not set up for a Murena and although it might look the same, was for a particular Citroen and does not work correctly on the Murena.  The specification is all wrong.  This is the same with any car/engine/carburettor.  You need the correct one specified for it.  In your case, for a Citroen/Peugeot 1.9 engine there will be numerous Solex and Webers that were fitted to cover different versions, whether manual or auto and with or without air con. and even the date when produced is important as they had to meet varying emission levels.  They were usually Solex 34/34 or Weber 34/34 on a 1.9 litre engine, and if the one you found fitted to your Murena when you first got it was a Weber 32/34 DRTC maybe even that was an incorrectly fitted one anyway.

Does or did that 32/34 Weber have the code tag?  What is the new Solex code tag?  These are the things you have to go by, when investigating fitting a carburettor, especially when it is to something not originally designed with either this engine or carb.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 11, 2020, 02:56:19 pm
RELAX, BREATHE and be HAPPY....

What a relief. Solex obviously knew what I wanted when I said 405 1.9.
This took a vast amount of searching, following links and generally getting confused on the interweb.
Found three numbers hidden behind the choke mechanism (611) which identify it as a 34 / 34 carb (doesnt specitfy Z1 or Z2. Believe it or not I eventually found that on a Volvo website!!!) The order number on the invoice is not an order number as it says but a model number (9422212900) Identifying it as (suitable) for  405 1.9. after further cross referencing it is also used on citreon BX 19.
I have however not been able to ascertain the jet sizes. I even removed both main jets and neither is marked.
On the down side I have discovered I could have got it a hell of a lot cheaper!!!!!
But to end on a positive side................... My reproduced chassis plate has arrived, and...... Alaine has informed me the other plates should be ready in a few weeks :) :) but judging how long it took for this one I wont hold my breath.
Thanks again Roy. At least i can relax (til the next time)
Just waiting for the new gaskets and cable adjuster so I can fit it.....................................


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: roy4matra on July 11, 2020, 03:41:51 pm
RELAX, BREATHE and be HAPPY....

What a relief. Solex obviously knew what I wanted when I said 405 1.9.
This took a vast amount of searching, following links and generally getting confused on the interweb.
Found three numbers hidden behind the choke mechanism (611) which identify it as a 34 / 34 carb (doesnt specitfy Z1 or Z2. Believe it or not I eventually found that on a Volvo website!!!) The order number on the invoice is not an order number as it says but a model number (9422212900) Identifying it as (suitable) for  405 1.9. after further cross referencing it is also used on citreon BX 19.
I have however not been able to ascertain the jet sizes. I even removed both main jets and neither is marked.
On the down side I have discovered I could have got it a hell of a lot cheaper!!!!!
But to end on a positive side................... My reproduced chassis plate has arrived, and...... Alaine has informed me the other plates should be ready in a few weeks :) :) but judging how long it took for this one I wont hold my breath.
Thanks again Roy. At least i can relax (til the next time)
Just waiting for the new gaskets and cable adjuster so I can fit it.....................................

It's good to know they did supply the correct 34/34 carburettor.  It did seem strange that if you specified it was for a 1.9 they would have sent one for the lower powered smaller capacity engines.

The new chassis plate looks good Terry.

Roy


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on July 24, 2020, 08:13:16 pm
As the steering hub nut arrived today I thought i would fit it !
Has anyone else purchased the boss kit from carjoy?
Either I am doing something wrong or it doesnt fit!!!!
The splines are correct but the shaft is not long enough to get the nut on as the base of the boss interferes with the plastic surround.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 28, 2020, 04:23:46 pm
Been so busy lately but am using possibly the last days of summer well.
Latest issue is a blowing exhaust manifold gasket so thought I better have a look!
The manifold was secured by only 3 studs one of which didnt have a nut on!!!!! Why????
Thought for a minute I may be in trouble but after manovering the manifold out of the way (It wont squeeze between the engine mount underneath or the rocker cover at the top) i managed to use the stud which came out with the nut to confirm that the studs have just made a break for freedom!!!
Ordered a nut and stud set for a 205 and a gasket set! State of my old gaskets, not too sure if the pictures are clear!!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 11, 2020, 04:26:23 pm
Replacing missing and broken manifold studs. One gave me trouble but I used plenty of heat, plus gas, and the old "two nuts trick".


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on November 03, 2020, 09:08:27 am
Possibly the last update this year! and what a mad year it has been!
After months of trying to get the new Solex carb to work correctly I admit I gave up, I managed to find a Weber 32/34 DRTC on line so after negotiations managed to aquire this. I swapped out the jets on my old webber as these were different from the new one, cleaned and fitted a new gasket set. The new Webber had an automatic choke fitted so I had already purchased and re-fitted all hoses so I re-routed these so I now have a fully functioning auto choke!!! I then moved on to the distributer and found the advance retard was non functional as the balance weights were corroded and one of the springs was so weak it wasnt working. After all this EOW now starts on the first turn every time. The ignition timing needs attention as it is slightly out. I am not sure if this is because of the distributer as I have read that these distributers (its a copy as it was the only one i could find) are not very reliable so more investigation is required. In the unlikely event anyone has a Bosch 0237 009 047 knocking about  I would be grateful. I have found a few on line at astronomical prices but upon contact no one has them available. So the only real work to complete EOW is now a re spray which will hopefully be done in the spring.

Which brings me on to the bad news!!!!
As the lads who I associate with have decided that it is too risky in booking holdiays next year after not knowing if where we book will be cancelled or moved we have decided to do a tour of Britain taking in Snowdonia the lakes and then the NC500! Not knowing if EOW would be fully tested by then it would not be right if I joined the Porsches and Lancias in a modern day rep-mobile so sorry all,..... I have purchased a Porsche 944 which has already been re-stored.
I humbly ask your forgiveness and apologise un reservedly.






Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Matraman on November 03, 2020, 10:56:02 am
Don't be too embarrassed about the Porsche, after my Bagheera I had a 924 S in the mid 90's, then a 944 S2, then a 911, then a Cayman and now a Macan S and a Murena 2.2. So it's possible to love both! The earlier Porsches were mainly higher mileage cheap ones and needed plenty of tlc, so make sure you test your 944 fully before the tour of Britain. Check water pump, cam belt and idlers, and steering joints, in addition to the other usual stuff. That 4 cylinder engine is usually very solid and reliable. Google Hartech if you want the full run down on what to look for.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on November 03, 2020, 06:32:43 pm
Thanks for your understanding and the info. Its had a pretty comprehensive rest including rebuilt engine belts hoses and the pump less than 500 miles ago. Also new gearbox and.  clutch. New screen and new interior. I too had a 924 back in the 80,s and the build quality is very good.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: GP on November 03, 2020, 08:38:38 pm
No apologies for buying a Porsche needed here!
My 410bhp. modified Homologation Porsche 996 GT3 MK 1 Clubsport. Don't arrrf go.................


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on November 03, 2020, 10:41:50 pm
Nice  :o


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Morne on December 27, 2020, 04:37:44 pm
More or less the same on this side ;)

Using the 944, while the Murena are up on the jack-stands


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Lennart Sorth on March 30, 2021, 02:47:29 pm
I have just ordered one of the AGM batteries recommended by Roy (thanks Roy!) - my car is already setup for the polarity.

I did think of getting a main brand (Bosch, Hella...) "normal" battery, which of course is cheaper, but then some places couldn't tell me if it was in stock unless I ordered, and others more honestly said "not in stock". Others again did have it in stock, but then wanted for delivery, and also some surcharge to be reimbursed if one returned the old one ...

all very complicated and cumbersome.

https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/ however has the Optima 'yellow top' YTS 2.7 AGM batteri at 139, with free next day delivery, in  stock.

That was a lot easier, and already well worth the extra expense :-)

460 CCA should be good :-)


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 28, 2021, 07:38:12 pm
Hi all, long time no speak. Trying to get hold of the lower front bumper rubber. Simon has them but 2 are listed 14024 and 14024a! I phoned them but the gent couldn't understand me and my German is kaput. Anyone know what the difference is? They look the same in the photo. My metal mounting strip is in good nick. Thanks for any help.


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: GP on September 28, 2021, 09:03:48 pm
Front and rear bumber rubbers are 2 x different lengths.

Front is  Gummileiste - Nr. 14 024

See attachment below....


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on September 28, 2021, 10:44:59 pm
Thanks GP


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: TELBOY on October 12, 2021, 11:21:21 am
Yes, I still own the car and work is still progressing, be it at a snails pace as despite being semi retired I just cant seem to find any time these days! package arrived from Simons consisting of the front bumper rubber and 2 x end caps. The rubber is easily long enough so I had to trim a couple of cm off each end. (I mounted it centrally on the backing plate first so as to make sure I didnt trim too much off in one go to avoid it being too short). This is the third time I have "finished" the front bumper but every time I thought I had finished I realised I didnt like the outcome. This I suppose is why everything takes me so long. It is still not perfect but it will have to do! I was looking back at photos of the nose and it really has had a lot of time spent on it!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: JV on October 12, 2021, 06:57:52 pm
Looks nice!


Title: Re: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION
Post by: Anders Dinsen on October 14, 2021, 05:33:01 am
It is looking great! Allow yourself to enjoy the work and make gradual progress, it's going to be perfect!   :)