MatraSport Forum

Each model => Murena => Topic started by: RazorbackNOR on March 01, 2008, 02:32:53 pm



Title: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 01, 2008, 02:32:53 pm
I guess since I probably will post much about my car here, it would be a good idea to gather a lot of these pictures and text under this heading and also show the progress of the car.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 01, 2008, 02:42:35 pm
So now I have started some of the work needed on the car, just finished changing the fuelpump, since the old one was leaking. Not to much trouble, except for that there was no thermal spacer supplied with the pump, so had to use the old one.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 01, 2008, 02:44:12 pm
more pics...


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on March 02, 2008, 09:53:09 am
Excellent idea making a worklog here.

Don't worry about reusing the thermal spacer.

The new pump is of the type that is more reliable than the old one.

What's next? :)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 02, 2008, 10:54:17 pm
Yes, I don't think it is of much other use since the old pump seemed to be leaking along the shaft, so i just refitted the spacer again.

Next today was to remove the old and ugly cassettholder on the center console. Don't protest, it HAD to go!!

Also found this cassett in it, for those of you who don't know, it is REALLY bad music!!


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 02, 2008, 10:55:06 pm
and more


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: davidewanprice on March 02, 2008, 11:06:15 pm
OH my god, as i said in a previous thread, i'd like to see peoples mods but thats sick, Keep up the good work


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oskar on March 02, 2008, 11:12:20 pm
oh no
please burn that tapeholder ;)

and its vikingarna. svenskt dansband när det är som bäst ;) ;D


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: lewisman on March 02, 2008, 11:45:54 pm
Was that a tape of a Eurovision entry?  Burn it as well!!


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oskar on March 03, 2008, 10:37:26 pm
 ;D

I feel sorry for the previous owner

sorry for offtopic

(http://www.home.no/adressrosenhill/Vikingarna.jpg)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 04, 2008, 06:35:08 am
Oscar, swedish danceband music...... :o :o :o

By the way, my car was in 2000 imported from sweden to norway, is there any possibility to track the cars history in sweden? BAd thing is that we to not know the cars swedish reg. nr.....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oskar on March 04, 2008, 08:10:01 pm
perhaps via chassienumber  :-\


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 04, 2008, 10:01:57 pm
Who do I contact in Sweden then? Bilprovningen?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: valross on March 05, 2008, 12:02:34 am
Who do I contact in Sweden then? Bilprovningen?

No, it´s  Vägverket you must get in contact with.
This is the email address to the customer service:

vagverket.ore@vv.se

If you speak norwegian I think you can read swedish. Here is information about export of cars from Sweden:

http://www.vv.se/templates/page3____11295.aspx

Today there are only nine (9) Murenas registred in Sweden :(



Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 05, 2008, 10:22:33 am
Hey, thanx. understand and read swedish and danish without any problems. ;)

Have just mailed them now, so we'll see what happens. found the original reg.papers on the car from Germany with first buyers name.

Also contacted "vegvesenet" here in Norway to see if they could come up with some numbers on Murenas in Norway.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 10, 2008, 12:04:57 am
Just gave "vegvesenet" the proper info on the car, so we´ll see what they can find.

From the swedish "vägverket" I still haven´t heard anything.... Seems like they are even slower then their norwegian part(if possible..)

Are there any germans here by the way....?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 10, 2008, 09:14:58 am
And here came the email, seems like there is 9 registerd Murenas in Norway at the moment.





Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 16, 2008, 04:10:00 pm
Hmm, drove the car up on some jacks to day for a better look underneath. Seem some petrol leaked out when I changed the pump, and have been running down the engine and around the exhaust outlet. Started smoking some when the car has been running for some minutes, so seems like I need a going over the engine with a steamer..... But was a bit worried when I saw the amount of oil on the outside/bottom of the engine....  :o :o


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: valross on March 16, 2008, 05:45:12 pm
And here came the email, seems like there is 9 registerd Murenas in Norway at the moment.


And as I read the lists there are 19 more Murenas that are in the register but not ready for the roads.
But no Bagheeras? ???


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 16, 2008, 10:16:40 pm
Seems like it, don't know if these are "in ownership" but without licenseplates, or if these are the ones that have been registered in Norway in total, including scrapped ones.

Well, I know of atleast two Bagheeras in my hometown, my friend have one that he is restoring, and one for parts. Strange that they do not appear on the list... Could be that they are registered under an other brand, the Matras in Norway are registered under the Talbot brand.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: valross on March 17, 2008, 04:31:35 pm
Could be that they are registered under an other brand, the Matras in Norway are registered under the Talbot brand.

Of course! All Bagheeras are SIMCA Matra Bagheera, except the 1980 TALBOT Matra Bagheera :-[


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on March 17, 2008, 09:41:52 pm
The amount of oil unter the engine doesn't look shocking to me.
They all leak more or less oil at the seals.
I did not see a dry engine upto now.
Mine is pretty dry, but sometimes I smell a drop of oil hits the exhaust.
One Murena I checked out buying, had a small box mounted unther the engine :D
Once a week he empty'd it.
It keeped his driveway clean.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 17, 2008, 10:08:00 pm
oh, it´s like that....

I guess they also use quite a lot of oil then....

Other cars that I have had, usually leaked on the head cover gasket. Will probably try to get one and change it, see if it helps any.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on March 17, 2008, 10:21:26 pm
I can't speak for others, but I drove mine for 1000 miles (only have it a few months) and and used about 2 mm on the oilstick.
I think its not to much.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: krede on March 19, 2008, 01:56:10 pm
Mine is much worse.
I expect that a lot of it comes from the top cam chain cover.. should be easy to fix.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on March 19, 2008, 03:22:39 pm
I readed about lockleak and its a additive for making seals a bit more flexible and stopping leaks in the seals..
Anyone have experience with it, because there is not much info on the net about it.
You can find the same stuff from wynns and barleack.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 21, 2008, 02:20:54 pm
Have secured the oil hose, took of the carb and gave it a good clean now. Engine is running more smoothly now, still need some choke to keep it running, but not as much as before.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on March 21, 2008, 02:22:33 pm
During work...


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 14, 2008, 01:07:43 pm
Anybody has any ideas of why the heck my temp doesn't show....? The meter gives full reading when grounded and the sender is not shortcircuited (i think) since i have two and both give a reading when checking with an ohm-meter.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jacobosterlindh on April 14, 2008, 10:59:27 pm
Who do I contact in Sweden then? Bilprovningen?

No, it´s  Vägverket you must get in contact with.
This is the email address to the customer service:

vagverket.ore@vv.se

If you speak norwegian I think you can read swedish. Here is information about export of cars from Sweden:

http://www.vv.se/templates/page3____11295.aspx

Today there are only nine (9) Murenas registred in Sweden :(



Email me your chassisnumber... i have VTR access on my work, ill check it for you... :)
/Jacob, Sweden


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 16, 2008, 02:07:34 am
Thank Jacob, but I already talked to them. Seem the car was never registered i Sweden, according to the man I spoke with.

But if you fancy a go....  The nr is: VF853C432CX656973


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 16, 2008, 12:10:14 pm
Anybody has any ideas of why the heck my temp doesn't show....? The meter gives full reading when grounded and the sender is not shortcircuited (i think) since i have two and both give a reading when checking with an ohm-meter.

There could still be a short circuit somewhere - not necessarily a zero ohm connection, but one with a certain resistance preventing the meter from moving. Also, just because the meter can deflect fully, does not necessarily mean that it is okay.

Take out your ohm meter and measure between the connector for the temp sender and ground, and post the result here. If everything is okay it should show the internal resistance of the instrument. I'll do the same then on mine and we can compare the results.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 18, 2008, 12:15:39 pm
Roger, will do!!
Will probably try the measure both straight on the connector in the engine bay and also on the connector inside so we can see it including the wires to,

The one in the car now is infact the one from you.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 18, 2008, 12:47:06 pm
Roger, will do!!
Will probably try the measure both straight on the connector in the engine bay and also on the connector inside so we can see it including the wires to,

If you take the measurement on the sensor tab, that should be enough to compare with mine, and the wiring will be included in the measurement then.

Quote
The one in the car now is infact the one from you.

.... which I replaced because I suspected it was faulty (it showed too much)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 18, 2008, 01:35:57 pm

Quote
Quote
The one in the car now is infact the one from you.

.... which I replaced because I suspected it was faulty (it showed too much)

WTF!!???  :o :o

How about something in between...?? ??? ???


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 18, 2008, 02:31:30 pm

Quote
Quote
The one in the car now is infact the one from you.

.... which I replaced because I suspected it was faulty (it showed too much)

WTF!!???  :o :o

How about something in between...?? ??? ???

Exactly. Björn-Anders and I never managed to determine whether it was faulty or not. Hopefully we can get a step closer today. Mine reads about 97 Ohm with the connector disconnected from the sensor. I.e. that's measuring the circuit from the sensor to the meter and back.

- Andders


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 18, 2008, 03:30:40 pm
On what Ohm-setting did you have the meter on? Since there are many ranges on it....

GOD DAMN SHITTY BILTEMA METER!!!  >:( >:( >:( And did you get a stable reading? I know form last time i tried, that it gave a dropping reading. started on one number and kept on going domnwards about 0,1 pr second.  :o :o


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 18, 2008, 03:38:35 pm
On what Ohm-setting did you have the meter on? Since there are many ranges on it....

GOD DAMN SHITTY BILTEMA METER!!!  >:( >:( >:( And did you get a stable reading? I know form last time i tried, that it gave a dropping reading. started on one number and kept on going domnwards about 0,1 pr second.  :o :o

I had mine on 'auto' ;)

Reading was somewhat stable, but at that level it depends on the chassis connection. I just grounded it on the distributor but didn't care to hold it tight. Reading was ranging from 90 to 110, but stabilised on 97. So let's say 95 +/- 10.

The problem is digital meters, they are really too accurate for these kind of measurements. An old fashioned analogue meter would be better in many cases.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 20, 2008, 07:25:23 pm
Hmm, How the f*** does one get to the back of the dashboard....? Started to trying to remove the cover infront of the fan switch, but none of the tabs for switching hot/cold/feet/window selectors seem to have the slightest thought of ever coming of....

Yupp, an new shitty mulitmeter here... with a bunch of ranges to choose from...


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oskar on April 20, 2008, 09:11:47 pm
you just pull them to get them off
they are just pushed on.  after removing them they will not sit as hard as before but hard enough :)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 20, 2008, 10:01:55 pm
One came of, has a hole on the under side, would think it was for some kind of retainer tab on the other side, which would be correct with not sitting as hard afterwards since the tab would probably break of when ripping it of. Which would mean there should be some way of getting it loose without breaking it too.....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on April 21, 2008, 10:42:37 am
Just looked in the manual for disambling the panel, and there is written on page Va 0a 705, simply pull them off.
Because the plastic is 25 years old it is not so flexible any more.
Some precaution is in place.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 21, 2008, 12:02:43 pm
God damn! Strangly scared of ripping the whole vent mechanics out if I pull and harder....

Oetker, does it say anything on how to get to the water temp gauge, or anything on removing the instrument panel alltogether?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on April 21, 2008, 12:58:06 pm
In this topic is written how to get out instrumentpanel.
http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php?topic=269.0
And here how to get the heatpanel.
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2q8atlj.jpg)

Maybe someone glued the buttons


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 21, 2008, 08:06:24 pm
Okay, finally removed the instrument panel. There are some tabs on the selectors, which one should try to free before removing them, cause DAMN they were stuck!!! Have probably never been removed before, and the plastic was still very good and didnt crack at all.

Now over to the real problems.... Connected the mulitmeter to tabs 10 and 16 on the connector, should be right in regards to the elecrical diagram (see pic 1)

then turned on the ignition(engine not running) and got another reading (see pic 2)


now for the big problem.....

Noticed that the temp sender was not plugged in.... Why the heck did I get that kind of reading then....? and the mulitmeter did not give any diffferent reading when I plugged in the sender either....

Why, why, why....? :o  ???


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 21, 2008, 08:25:12 pm
Why, why, why....? :o  ???

YOu have found the problem. There is a short circuit, most likely a melted wire somewhere. Now you "just" need to trace it down! ;)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on April 21, 2008, 08:46:53 pm
Ok, lets stay logical.
Disconnect the battery.
Put the wire on the sender to ground.
Measure at the connector the wire that goes to the sender and ground.
It has to be lower as 5 ohm.
If it is much higher you have a bad conection in the wire to the back.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 21, 2008, 09:52:46 pm
Ah Oetker, you speak so a novice like me can understand! Thank you and thank you too Anders.

Will try that tomorrow, and perhaps also try to find the little short curcuit(if any)( oh joy...)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oskar on April 21, 2008, 10:38:03 pm
my water temp is reading very low if thats make you little more happy  :)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on April 21, 2008, 10:44:39 pm
quote
--------
my water temp is reading very low if thats make you little more happy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look again when you drove 120 mph for 1 hour on a hot day at 30 degree C ;D
Or did you disconnect it for piece of mind?  :P
Then it reads very low.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 22, 2008, 10:51:07 am
my water temp is reading very low if thats make you little more happy  :)

Perhaps you too have a slight shortcurcuit Oskar.....? You know how these connetions get as years go by....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 23, 2008, 08:12:53 am
Why, why, why....? :o  ???

YOu have found the problem. There is a short circuit, most likely a melted wire somewhere. Now you "just" need to trace it down! ;)

But isn't there a problem with calling this a short curcuit....? if there was a short curcuit, the wire would be grounded eg. 0 resistance, which would make the meter go to the top.... and the problem here is no movement, which would suggest no connection, but the meter went sky high when I grounded it at the sender when the dashboard was connected....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on April 23, 2008, 08:42:39 am
The circuit for temp is simple, and there is not much that can go wrong.
One side of the gauge is + the other side is going to the sender.
If you measure the wire to the back the way I described  the + on the gauge and that the engine at the point the sender is, is realy grounded it has to work.
If not, only sender or gauge can be defect, and I suspect the sender.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 23, 2008, 09:12:43 am
Just looked at the diagram once more, and seem I did a major mistake.... I've been measuring between earth and nr 10 on the instrument panel connector, seems it was nr 9 that was to the sender....  :-[

No wonder it didn't give any signal....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 23, 2008, 09:16:08 am
No wonder it didn't give any signal....

LoL -  we have all tried that! :)
better luck next time!


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on April 23, 2008, 09:56:57 am
The way you work with electrics is not right in the first place I think..(no offence).
If you measure ohms in circuit always disconnect battery.
If connected measuring can be different.
I am hammering on the fact the engine has good ground because the chassis is galvanised and if connections on the chassis are coroded the protection layer of the chassis will try to correct that crawling unther the connections to correct rust making the resitance of  connections higher.
Measure it from minus accu to engine (it has to be around 3-5 ohm).
Measure the wire as described reolace sender or/and gauge.
This must do the job.

Edit.

and another thing, just put on a new connecter at the sender.
The wire gets hot and at that point after so many years the connection is not reliable.
I had that on my Dynamo wich didn't charge sometimes.
All looked fine but it was rotten just behind the connector.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 23, 2008, 10:33:04 am
I agree with Oetker that it's a good idea to check the earth connection on the engine as it can deteriorate over time, but...

Measure it from minus accu to engine (it has to be around 3-5 ohm).

that's far too much! It should be very low, less than the resistance of the test wires to your ohm meter.

About the tab on the sender - yes it may be a good idea to replace it, but a visual inspection should be able to show whether there's a problem. This particular place is hot and dry, so it's not the worst place for corrosion to build up.

The worst places are the three connectors in the front compartment and the green connector in the engine room. These are open and located in wetty places. Partly melted connector housings are a typical indication of this, but only happens on connections that carry current, of course - which the temp sender doesnt, however.

I saw this problem this weekend on a friends' Espace, where a couple of fuses had melted down completely because of corrosion on the connections!

The best way to prevent it is to make all connections water proof. Silicone grease is quite useful for this.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on April 23, 2008, 11:13:17 am
that's far too much! It should be very low, less than the resistance of the test wires to your ohm meter.

About the tab on the sender - yes it may be a good idea to replace it, but a visual inspection should be able to show whether there's a problem. This particular place is hot and dry, so it's not the worst place for corrosion to build up.

The worst places are the three connectors in the front compartment and the green connector in the engine room. These are open and located in wetty places. Partly melted connector housings are a typical indication of this, but only happens on connections that carry current, of course - which the temp sender doesnt, however.

I saw this problem this weekend on a friends' Espace, where a couple of fuses had melted down completely because of corrosion on the connections!

The best way to prevent it is to make all connections water proof. Silicone grease is quite useful for this.

The calculation of the wires were included in the measuring, and if you measure from the front the wire is very long, so thats why I held a higher resistance.
The thick wire from front to end has to be almost zero.

Closing connectors with silicongrease is a good idea, but do it with acid free kit.
The acid in some kit can destroy cupper over time.

The heat in the connectors at the engine can make that points very unreliable over time, as I already found out.
The problem I had on the dynamo took alot of time to find it out, because it was there some times.
Better to replace connectors if you are there doing jobs.

Just my 2 cents


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 03, 2008, 04:02:14 pm
BTW, does anybody know the location of the headlamp relays? sine some previous owner have something of his own, and it doesn't look good, I thought I might see if the orginal fuses are gone, beyond repair, or just have bad wiring since he decided to do what he did.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Lennart Sorth on May 05, 2008, 08:19:26 pm
BTW, does anybody know the location of the headlamp relays?
They are on the underside of the fuse board, providing that is still original.

/Lennart


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 06, 2008, 08:53:46 am
He he, special place to hide them.... Probably why he couldn't find them and tried to "make" something....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 06, 2008, 08:57:36 am
He he, special place to hide them.... Probably why he couldn't find them and tried to "make" something....

Could be.
But the fuse board (especially the connectors) is known to be problematic, so maybe he has tried to fix something...?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 08, 2008, 08:51:05 pm
Hmm, just removed the fuseboard now, saw to green wires on it, with singel connectors on it. one is connected, and the one on the other side is loose....

WHY...? :o

I would guess it is 41A on the wiring diagram, but none the wiser....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 08, 2008, 09:56:04 pm
Hmm, just removed the fuseboard now, saw to green wires on it, with singel connectors on it. one is connected, and the one on the other side is loose....

Can you post a photo? It's a little difficult to work out from your description ???


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oskar on May 08, 2008, 11:37:57 pm
I have the same ( two green cables and only one connected)  ???


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 12, 2008, 02:09:30 pm
This one


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 12, 2008, 04:55:56 pm
Yes, looks like 41A which is the rear lights.

German Murenas had a seperate fuse in the rear light circuit. It looks like yours is wired for that.

But your connectors and wiring looks splendid, I wonder why anyone has tried to repair anything? I suggest you do the job to put the wiring back to the original and refit the relays on the fuse board. Since a previous owner has fitted relays in the front compartment, I assume the relays on the fuse board have been removed? Or maybe, the owner has tried to make automatic daylight driving lights?

Once you have restored it to original, there's a simple modification possible where the lamps in the spoiler can be used for daylight driving lights.

- Anders



Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 13, 2008, 09:10:15 am
Yes, they seem rather good, dry and in one piece. The relays are infact where they are supposed to be, so beats me what someone has been trying to do.... Seems like I need to take the front bumper of, to se the rest of the wiring, if there are anything left of the old etc. Perhaps a good time to fit the bumper correctly to....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on August 28, 2008, 02:39:35 pm
Does anybody know which connector this is...? I have diffuculty identifying it, and one side is connected with 6 wires, the other with just 5....  ???


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 28, 2008, 05:23:23 pm
It must be H36 or H37. Where do the wires go?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on August 29, 2008, 10:16:11 pm
Cant really see, will check. Would think H36/7/8  but cant really get the colours to match up.

And, cant get the car to ignite now  :o :o ??? ???, turns like hell, but wont ignite. havent really messed with other than the connector to the instrument board and the cigaret lighther....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 29, 2008, 08:57:35 pm
Cant really see, will check. Would think H36/7/8  but cant really get the colours to match up.

And, cant get the car to ignite now  :o :o ??? ???, turns like hell, but wont ignite. havent really messed with other than the connector to the instrument board and the cigaret lighther....

Ho ho, talk about being stupid.... :-[
Were looking around the Murena for all my tools(needed them to fix the Astra) and guess whatI found.... It was a rotor(for a distributor)....  :o :o

Gee, I wonder where in the world that could have come from....  ??? ??? ???


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on September 29, 2008, 09:52:06 pm
Gee, I wonder where in the world that could have come from....  ??? ??? ???

Haha! I think I can imagine.... ;D


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 09, 2010, 08:53:49 am
Okay, just started looking at the Murena a bit again. Has been a no-runner for a bit now(have moved, been laid of etc).

Last thing that was done, was to remove distributor cap and rotor. Seems like there is a problem getting the plugs correctly firing now...

When trying to start, it backfires up the carb, which tells me something is serious wrong. but from what I can tell looking at your photos, the leads are correctly placed.

Here's what happens:
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4835/mvi4192.mp4 (http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4835/mvi4192.mp4)

and before you guys try, no, with this cut on the shaft
(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7315/dsc3372s.jpg) (http://img831.imageshack.us/i/dsc3372s.jpg/)

and this in the rotor
(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1186/dsc3375t.jpg) (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/dsc3375t.jpg/)
there is no way it can be put on 180 degrees wrong either. Checked and doublechecked...

Any ideas?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on September 09, 2010, 09:17:39 am

---

Any ideas?

The whole distributor housing could be turned. Make sure the vacuum advance membrane is facing towards the right side of the engine bay.  ;)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 09, 2010, 09:35:12 am

---

Any ideas?

The whole distributor housing could be turned. Make sure the vacuum advance membrane is facing towards the right side of the engine bay.  ;)

Hmm, seems like you could be onto sonthing there Jon... Would have guessed that someone earlier then me has been fiddling with it... Don't think it can be turned much more then it is now, vacuum hose is allready a bit on the shortside. Perhaps incorrectly assemled then, and leads mounted the wrong way to suit the already wrong position of the distributor...
Here is how mine look, please, post some of yours to, for comparison
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2518/dsc3369g.jpg) (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/dsc3369g.jpg/)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on September 09, 2010, 09:43:12 am
That looks like the same position as mine:

(http://gallery.dinsen.net/d/16884-2/DSC_7055.JPG)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 09, 2010, 10:00:06 am
From what I could see on the pics you sent me Anders, I concluded that cylinder one(leftmost on the block) goes to the point topmost point on the cap. Cyl 2 to the right of that one, cyl 3 to the left, towards the carb, and cyl 4 at the bottom.

Correct...?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 09, 2010, 11:03:41 am
from what i can gather from this, the firing sequence is correct, although it is for the 1,6l, seems lake there are som pages missing in the workshop manual, anybody have these pages (Ca0A202)?
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/2032/ca0a201page006.jpg)


Looking further, it could seem that the position of the leads might be wrong, but why is Anders' firing like it should then....? ???
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9780/ca0a201page044.jpg) (http://img827.imageshack.us/i/ca0a201page006.jpg/)
 


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on September 09, 2010, 05:13:59 pm
The distr. looks in the right position.
Maybe some fresh fuel will do the trick


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on September 09, 2010, 07:55:31 pm
Looking at your cables the way it goes, i'm not sure it is correct.
Just for info.
Cilinder 1 is at clutch side.
I use the Tagora engine manual, and there is stated that the distr. goes clockwise, not CCW like the 1.6.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 10, 2010, 12:07:22 pm
Looking at your cables the way it goes, i'm not sure it is correct.
Just for info.
Cilinder 1 is at clutch side.
I use the Tagora engine manual, and there is stated that the distr. goes clockwise, not CCW like the 1.6.


Could anybody with a 2.2 please chech this....? from what I can see, it looks like me and Anders has the same rotation( although it also looks like we have the same position on the leads too, and that didn't work for me....)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on September 10, 2010, 12:24:54 pm
I don't have the car at hand, and am busy with the engine wiring, it is all out.
In the afternoon I am at the garage to look.
I can't start to see rotation, but I can check the cables.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on September 10, 2010, 04:55:55 pm
Cilinder 1
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2675/p1030700medium.jpg) (http://img838.imageshack.us/i/p1030700medium.jpg/)

It goes clockwise 1-3-4-2
It looks the same as you.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 13, 2010, 08:45:36 am
:D :D YES!!! :D :D

Now she's a runner!
http://yfrog.com/jnmvi4200z (http://yfrog.com/jnmvi4200z)

Oetker: thanks, you hint did the trick, just swapped the leads one rotation and she fired on the first attempt.


Only thing now then, is that it seem she's running a little lean... have to have at least 30-50% choke to have her running. I didn't stop it on the video, just cut the choke, so, some mor things to figure out.... The joys of having a Murena.  ;D

Oh, and by the way, since she was kind enough to get started, and you should always take care of your little "precious" I have decided to name this little beauty, And her name is.......:

GOLDIE


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on September 13, 2010, 09:28:18 am
Congratulations.
I think Goldie didn't run for some time and need some serious driving with fresh fuel and spark plugs/cables.
A bit standard maintenance will do a lot.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 14, 2010, 07:24:24 pm
Well then.... Now that she is a runner(if stumbling along on croutches could be considered "running"....), we just have to get her to run properly.....

Seems as I said, that she is a little lean on the mixture, but, how do we go about attacking the problem? what would be the most probable cause for the problem? I can think of:

1. Incorrect carb setting (low petrol/air mixture.
2. Low idle setting
3. Drawing extra air somewhere(vacuumhoses, faulty gaskets)
4. Vacuum on the distributor malfunction

Could someone with a little knowhow PLEASE help me and Goldie....?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on September 14, 2010, 07:32:49 pm
What did you do so far?
If this was my car, I would start to put on new distr.cap, rotor, spark plugs cables.
Set timing, adjust valves change oil and filters before doing anything else.
I can't find this back in your topic.
If I listen to your engine, I don't have the feeling all cylinders work as they  should.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 14, 2010, 09:30:44 pm
Not to much yet....

Sound quality of video sucked.... didn't get the feeling that it wasn't firing on all cylinders, but that's easily checked removing each of the plugs and grounding them one at a time. also then have the chance to see the condition of the plugs(although i guess they will be fould up now from repeated attemps of trying to start earlier.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on September 14, 2010, 09:42:22 pm
Don't look to much for faults, just replace and adjust the things I mentioned.
4 sparkplugd €10..-
Distr.cap €10.-
Rotor €3.50
Cables €45,-
Filters €15.-
5 litre oil €15.-
What are we talking about ??????  around €100.- to make this right in the first place, so it can't fool you looking for other problems.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on September 14, 2010, 09:50:22 pm
I agree, but would drop in a few extras: New fuel filter and new fuel hoses. And give the carb a good cleaning - take it off the car and let it soak in petroleum for a day. Then clear all passages, preferably using compressed air, but a can of WD40 can do the job.

That cure should make it run better than ever :)

/Anders


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 14, 2010, 10:33:11 pm
Actually Anders, that has been done. New fuel pump too, Bjørn Anders bought it before he sold it because the old one was leaking.

When I bought her from him, she wasn't running nearly as good as she does now. Had a LARGE leak between the manifold and engine cover.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 15, 2010, 02:05:20 pm
So, then I have ordered new filters, cap, rotor and sparkplugs. Bet she'll feels like a whole new lady, all refreshed now.  :D

On the subject of spark leads, do I remember correctly, can these be made by myself....? Seem to recall that one could cut the leads and handcrimp the connectors. If anybody has done/knows how, PLEASE do tell  ;)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on September 15, 2010, 04:21:47 pm
Yes that is possible.
Just remember that this engine gets pretty hot, so take 4 LONG NGK caps with 5 Kohm resistance or even better find long metal ones used on Golf/passat/Vento etc.
Than you can take 7 mm pure copper HT cable.
It will not be much cheaper then buying a complete set.

On this topic you find how I did it.
Scroll a bit down.

http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1811.15.html


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on September 15, 2010, 10:40:58 pm
So, then I have ordered new filters, cap, rotor and sparkplugs. Bet she'll feels like a whole new lady, all refreshed now.  :D

On the subject of spark leads, do I remember correctly, can these be made by myself....? Seem to recall that one could cut the leads and handcrimp the connectors. If anybody has done/knows how, PLEASE do tell  ;)

You could probably make spark plug wires yourself, but making sure the connections are good could be a challenge and potential trouble spot.

I would recommend that you visit the nearest Biltema store (there are several in Norway), where you can buy the leads in exactly the length you need. They sell them individually and they are not expensive. On top of that they are of a high quality silicone type. And they have a very nice blue color. ;)

I first bought a new set from Simons, but I found that if I tried to move a wire in one of the clamps on the valve cover, with the engine running, I would get zapped. So those went into the bin and the Biltema wires on instead. You can maneuver them without risk getting shocked.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on September 15, 2010, 10:49:32 pm
Yep I know all about the shitty cables.
If they get hot, this can happen.
38 Mohm in the last 3 cm before the spark plugs.
Believe me, the car doesn't like that, making sounds like yours.
(http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/1453/p1020192medium.jpg)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 17, 2010, 10:26:20 pm
Since I'm waiting for some parts to arrive, I decided to freshen ut the little lady with som new hoses, perhaps making her feel pretty might help.... ;D

So, went out to the local rallyshop, and got some nice blue silicon vacuumhose. Replaced the hose from the intake manifold to distibutor.

Noticed that there also was another vacuum hose of the same size, going from the intake pipe to a T-pipe, and what do I see...??
(http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2972/dsc3470a.jpg) (http://img243.imageshack.us/i/dsc3470a.jpg/)
Might this be the culprit....? With my luck I serioisly doubt it thou..... Especially since it looks like it's connected way before the carburtattor.

Anywho, seems like the battery has seen better days, doesn't manage to crank the engine a full revulution now. Cold norwegian winter, sitting outside and drained battery is not a good combination....
Will try so salvage the battery tomorrow, and see if she runs any better then.

Here's how pretty she got with some of her new hoses on(more will come)
Arrow pointing to point where the hose was broken
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1686/dsc3472arrow.jpg) (http://img215.imageshack.us/i/dsc3472arrow.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: krede on September 19, 2010, 07:52:48 am
I would install an electric fuel pump mate!.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on September 19, 2010, 08:16:21 am
This pump looks pretty new.
There are some type of older pumps that has the problem of loose connection pipes (NB:real fire risk).
This will do well for some time.
Only a fuel filter would be nice.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 19, 2010, 10:36:34 am
Fuel filter is coming with the rest of the parts. Yes, the pump is brand new, the old one was leaking to the previous owner had allready bought it when I got  the car. Electrical pump is considered, perhaps a future project together with the other intake and carb I have...

Well, today is the big day... See if I really found the leak. Look for a new video later. Is she purring or is she growling.....?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Philbert on September 19, 2010, 01:55:55 pm
So, went out to the local rallyshop, and got some nice blue silicon vacuumhose.
------
You should know that silicone hoses will "grow" when subjected to gasoline vapors. There is a real chance that they will just fall off the nipples, unless you put a strap around them. The best thing to use is poly urethane hoses, that also come in different colors.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 20, 2010, 08:28:56 am
Okay, no big hurrah's this time....  :(

Seems the little old lady was rather moody this time.... but ain't that just typical of women.....?

Tried to salvage the battery, low water level in it, and didn't take ut much charge, to topped it of, and did an alnighter on the charger, but, seems like this one is a goner....

The big problem now, is that since I fixed the last vacuumhose the other day, now the cranky bitch won't start.... ??? ???
And no apparent reason either.... Didn't even hear an attempt to fire....

Any ideas people.....??

Only think I could see as a remote possibility, is that some previous owner could have tried to adjust the carb to compensate for the various vacuumleaks, and now that they are sealed, the mixture is way to rich. But shouldn't it at least have gotten a few sparks of then....?
And where do I adjust the richness of the mixture on the carb?
Didn't take of the sparkplugs to see if there where any sparks on it, got seriously depressed when the lady wouldn't cooperate, but this will be taken care of when I(anyday now) get the new parts.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on September 20, 2010, 09:30:39 am
Sorry to hear about your depression! You're doing the right thing, so keep up the good work  8)
Forget the carb adjustment: First, you're right - if it was over rich it would still fire. Second, there are no adjustment possibilities, except the idle mixture.

I think you have either weak or no spark. Start with replacing the battery so you have enough voltage to drive the ignition while the engine is cranking.

Cheers,
Anders


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on September 20, 2010, 09:36:18 am
Any fuel coming to the carb?
You replaced the hoses, so it takes a bit of time to get the fuel in the carb because the whole system is empty.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 20, 2010, 12:17:51 pm
I think you have either weak or no spark. Start with replacing the battery so you have enough voltage to drive the ignition while the engine is cranking.

Cheers,
Anders

The strangest thing is that I haven't done anything to the electrical from the time she roared like crazy to the time she wouldn't start. Both times we used jumper cables, same cables, same car.

Any fuel coming to the carb?
You replaced the hoses, so it takes a bit of time to get the fuel in the carb because the whole system is empty.


Yes, plenty of fuel coming down the carb, no problem there.

So, went out to the local rallyshop, and got some nice blue silicon vacuumhose.
------
You should know that silicone hoses will "grow" when subjected to gasoline vapors. There is a real chance that they will just fall off the nipples, unless you put a strap around them. The best thing to use is poly urethane hoses, that also come in different colors.
I thought the reason silicon hoses were used was because they didn't react much... Anyway, yes they will be secured with clamps. For now it almost looked like they has shriked. Stuck like hell when I tried to get them of.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on December 13, 2010, 11:53:59 am
Not much progress nowadays because of a meter of snow all over the country.... But a little "behind-the-scenes" work is allways good to have.

Been stripping the old carb I got from the slaughter, the one seen on some of my old pictures, fuel had become solidified, gaskets an o-rings stiff and broke, and there was a serious oxidation on the body. Tried first boiling it in citric acid, didn't do much, got a serious case of "mud" on it, scrubbed it of, but didn't do much for the look of it.

Brought it with me to fork, and got serious on it with a soft sand blaster here. Tht did the trick!
Just got it masked, and ready for a clear coat.

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7822/img1675medium.jpg) (http://img707.imageshack.us/i/img1675medium.jpg/)


(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/55/img1678medium.jpg) (http://img547.imageshack.us/i/img1678medium.jpg/)


(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6129/img1677medium.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/img1677medium.jpg/)



Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on December 14, 2010, 09:06:36 am
Brought it with me to fork, and got serious on it with a soft sand blaster here. Tht did the trick!
Just got it masked, and ready for a clear coat.

It looks really good. :D

Just a warning about sand blasting engine and carburator parts. Sand has sharp, irregular edges (which is why it cleans so well) and small grains can stick in the soft aluminium surface. This can increase wear, if against a moving part (i.e. shafts)
 :(
It is far better to blast with glass beads, as they do not have a tendency to stick.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 10, 2011, 03:27:29 pm
Hmm, does anybody know how to separate the two halves of the air filter box? Noticed now that there is a lot of dust inside it, but the two halves won't come apart.... If I apply more power somewhere now, I'm sure somethings gone snap.....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on April 10, 2011, 04:09:37 pm
Hmm, does anybody know how to separate the two halves of the air filter box?
---.
On a 2.2 you loosten the metal clips on the top of the housing. Then the top needs to be twisted counter clockwise (as I recall) by about 1/4" so the tabs on the housing can slide out of the plastic brackets on the top. Then pull the top off. If you have already tried that, it is probably due to dust built-uo making the parts stick together. Perhaps WD40 can make them slide easier.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 10, 2011, 07:01:25 pm
That part was no problem Jon, but separating the bottom halv of the filterbox is....

The bottom half is also made up of two parts, and splitting this what I meant....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on April 11, 2011, 10:25:09 am
That part was no problem Jon, but separating the bottom halv of the filterbox is....

The bottom half is also made up of two parts, and splitting this what I meant....
I may be wrong, but I suspect it is glued together.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 11, 2011, 11:27:29 am
Wouln't think so, If gaps abit on one side when I try to force them a part, on the other side there looks like a circular tab, but it doesn't seem lik it is possible to depress it in any way. That bottom half seem to be very full of dust.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on April 11, 2011, 12:08:58 pm
I will check mine this evening and let you know what I find.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on April 11, 2011, 06:47:10 pm
Ok, you are right. It is not easy to see because the parts seperate where the plastic is moulded to keep the strap in place.

On mine I could not see any cracks at all until i pushed hard on the middle of the housing. But I did find that on the side that is up against the engine block, there is a rivet through the plastic, keeping the parts together. Presumably by removint the rivet the two halves pul apart with ease.

I have included photos below, showing the crack and the rivet on the opposite side. So remove this rivet and it should be easy.

Good luck.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 12, 2011, 12:01:05 pm
Hmm, no rivet inplace here, but seems like it could be some kind of plastic plug of some kind.... But doesn't seem to be willing to be open without removing this. Which is probably what has been done on your since there is a metal rivet there.

Anyone else have something on the subject....?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on April 12, 2011, 01:38:01 pm
Hmm, no rivet inplace here, but seems like it could be some kind of plastic plug of some kind....
---
If you see markings that indicate a plastic plug, try pushing it in with a parallel punch tool.
Once the filter halves are apart you can push the plug out and reinsert it when assembling.

It is also possible that there are tabs, similar to those holding the top in place, so that you have to twist the bottom half a little bit to get them to disengage. Problem is that they would be hidden under the plate that sits at the bottom of the top half, so no way to see them. ???
But try twisting one direction, or the other, to see if that frees up the halves.
The rivet in mine could be the result of someone breaking the tabs by forcing the halves apart >:(


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on April 12, 2011, 10:18:57 pm
Well I took the opportunity to replace my air filter. Turns out it is the same as on a Citroen ZX 1.6i from 03/91-
Paid 80 DKK at krogslund autoparts.

After I removed the rivet I mentioned above, I was able to twist the bottom half of the housing. There are NO tabs that lock it in place. There must be a ridge and a grove that hold the parts together, because I could twist it back and forth, but was unable to pull them apart. I was able to open a 1/8" gap on one side, but I did not have anything to insert that would stay in place and help me pry the other side free. Eventually I stopped, because I was marring the plastic and I don't have a dust problem. I am now convinced that the two halves snap together and that it requires enough force and something to leverage in the gap in order to take it apart.

With so much trouble I would just wash out any dust with the parts assembled and use a wet-cacuum to get the water out of the bottom.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 17, 2011, 08:26:10 pm
Seems like the main power wire on my car has seen is's better days.... Would almost also say it seems like the plastic has melted into the copper....

Does anybody know if this one runs all the way back to the starter all alone by it self(ref wirring diagram) and is easy to replace, and has anybody enough math skills to calculate proper size for this wire? 50amp battery, but the altornator I believe is connected to this wire, and it delivers a current of....? amps....?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 26, 2011, 11:55:30 am
Hmm, no rivet inplace here, but seems like it could be some kind of plastic plug of some kind....
---
If you see markings that indicate a plastic plug, try pushing it in with a parallel punch tool.
Once the filter halves are apart you can push the plug out and reinsert it when assembling.

It is also possible that there are tabs, similar to those holding the top in place, so that you have to twist the bottom half a little bit to get them to disengage. Problem is that they would be hidden under the plate that sits at the bottom of the top half, so no way to see them. ???
But try twisting one direction, or the other, to see if that frees up the halves.
The rivet in mine could be the result of someone breaking the tabs by forcing the halves apart >:(

Didn't seem to be able to twist them apart.

Here are the pictures of my filter. The grooves in the plastic "thing" was my doing, tried to depress it with a Torx-bit...

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/5289/dsc0385large.jpg) (http://img594.imageshack.us/i/dsc0385large.jpg/)
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/4196/dsc0386large.jpg) (http://img842.imageshack.us/i/dsc0386large.jpg/)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 26, 2011, 12:11:28 pm
Seems like the main power wire on my car has seen is's better days.... Would almost also say it seems like the plastic has melted into the copper....

Does anybody know if this one runs all the way back to the starter all alone by it self(ref wirring diagram) and is easy to replace, and has anybody enough math skills to calculate proper size for this wire? 50amp battery, but the altornator I believe is connected to this wire, and it delivers a current of....? amps....?

Okay, so I did it my self, went for a gauge 4 wire, which equals a 35mm2. Running from the battery to the starter. As i finally got the car jacked up, this was now feasible. Yes, I know it is a bit "bling bling", but the old battery connector was closed to being mashed to pieces, so I figured "why not".

And oh, I thought there was a little fuse on the small power cable, proved to be just a simple connector, but then I had allready mounted the new fuse, a little extra security can't be the worst thing one could have, right...?  ;)

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9035/img4235medium.jpg) (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/img4235medium.jpg/)

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7929/img4238medium.jpg) (http://img231.imageshack.us/i/img4238medium.jpg/)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on April 26, 2011, 05:08:58 pm
...
Hmm, no rivet inplace here, but seems like it could be some kind of plastic plug of some kind....
---
Looking at your first picture, the round object in the middle, looks like a place for the rivet. Try cleaning it out and see if there is a rivet, or plug, there.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 26, 2011, 07:33:44 pm
...
Hmm, no rivet inplace here, but seems like it could be some kind of plastic plug of some kind....
---
Looking at your first picture, the round object in the middle, looks like a place for the rivet. Try cleaning it out and see if there is a rivet, or plug, there.

Seems like there is just the plastic stud there, and no way to depress it without using some serious heavy tools. Or drilling it out.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 28, 2011, 07:12:09 pm
Okay, after crawling out from under the car, I was wondering what to do next.....
Noticed that during the winter the mirror on the drivers side had started "drooping".
(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/3165/img4230large.jpg) (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/img4230large.jpg/)
So, started from inside, removing screw and knobs, and pulled the whole assembly apart......

 :o
WTF??

Someone has done some seriously BAD repair on the mirror....
This is what I found.....
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9465/img4232large.jpg) (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/img4232large.jpg/)

(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/7153/img4233large.jpg) (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/img4233large.jpg/)
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/2184/img4234large.jpg) (http://img834.imageshack.us/i/img4234large.jpg/)

So, seems like I'm one up for some serious mirror repair/replacment...

Does anybody know of good ideas? I've seen that someone in the english Matra club have made some of the parts, but havn't recieved any answer from him yet. Also there is the South African firm.
How about unorginal replacments?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on April 28, 2011, 07:38:15 pm
Politecnic sells this ones with adapters.
(http://www.politecnic.com/img-matos/photosmatra/retro_ext.jpg)
http://www.politecnic.com/vitrage.htm

I had the Uno mirrors for some time, but also not a real easy job.
(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6671/vit1mediummu2.jpg)

Some people mounted. this BMW mirrors but view-angle left is slightly to low.
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6634/bmw1w.jpg) (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/bmw1w.jpg/)
Pic Benny
(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/8925/bmw2vz.jpg) (http://img195.imageshack.us/i/bmw2vz.jpg/)
pic Benny

The FSO mirrirs are perfect in view-angle (the same as the Murena ones) and are good lookalikes.
Needs some fidling at the interior.
If you don't want to spend much this is a good option.
(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/1910/p1030211medium.jpg)
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5876/p1030222medium.jpg)

See
http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,2180.0.html


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: suffolkpete on April 29, 2011, 11:00:53 am
I don't think the Matra Club part would completely solve your problem.  The Club only supplies the adjustment arm, that fits inside the barrel, and the brass rod.  The arm is broken and needs to be replaced, as does the brass rod, but your mirror also appears to lack the metal arm that connects the mirror body to the adjustment arm.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 29, 2011, 11:33:59 am
Hmm, I was hopingthe Matra Club had fixed both parts in there.....
Does anybody have a good picture of all the parts in the mehanism of the windows? I see imon has both the whole mirror and also the mechanism, pity the mechanism cost almost as much as the whole assembly....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: suffolkpete on April 29, 2011, 02:00:43 pm
how about these?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: suffolkpete on April 29, 2011, 02:02:42 pm
forgot the second attachment


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: suffolkpete on April 29, 2011, 02:06:15 pm
And I've just attached the wrong one, the forum doesn't seem to work properly with Internet Explorer 8 or I'm having a bad day :(
This is the one I meant, the part missing from Oetker's mirror is the arm that's hinged to the barrel on the right of the picture


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 29, 2011, 03:16:18 pm
Looks like there's no way in the forseeable future of fixing my existing mirror without paying an arm and a leg for it....

Checked with a local supplier(Thorshov Bil) for a Pug 309 mirror, he could supply(dont know how well it fits thou) but seems like Politecnic supplys them with a correct fixing plate. price here was 73€ and at they cost 55,64€



Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 29, 2011, 05:06:03 pm
Oetker, The BMW picture is not showing. Do you know how they fit, and what model they are for?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on April 29, 2011, 07:11:43 pm
I modified my post, its visible now.
They are from E30 BMW
Also not a straight fit.
You need to rasp a bit of the front down corner.
Also view angle left is a bit to low.
I have no pics from the inside.
The Murena is a bit difficult because of the view angles you need.
Especial left side can give problems as i noticed with the Uno mirrors.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 02, 2011, 10:27:01 am
Just borrowed a electrical mirror for a BMW E30, was a good bit from a pretty fit, so I think I go for the Politechnics Pug 309 replacment for the time being, considering a orginal replacment mirror when I get rich....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 03, 2011, 08:41:16 am
Hmm, could I get a picture request from some of you guys.....? Just wondering whats wrong with the parts of my car.....

The first one is how the wire comeing from the bonnet-lock(panserlås) to the transfer bar to the light pods. this is to prevent the bonnet from opening when the pods are flipped up. On my car the wire os not connected to the transferbar at al, just hangs loosely....

The other one would be of the attachementpoint of the transferbar. if you look at the attached video you can see how mine is "connected" or rather lack of it... seems like someone tried to make something of a rubber hose some time ago there....

http://img854.imageshack.us/i/6wx.mp4/


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 03, 2011, 09:13:10 am
This is what I have about it.
Seems you are missing some essentieel pieces there.
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9295/p1020562medium.jpg) (http://img12.imageshack.us/i/p1020562medium.jpg/)
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/6200/p1020564medium.jpg) (http://img31.imageshack.us/i/p1020564medium.jpg/)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 03, 2011, 10:26:27 am
Looked up the exploded view.
Don't think this parts are a easy find, but maybe someone in the club has them reserve..
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8985/klapsysteem.jpg) (http://img153.imageshack.us/i/klapsysteem.jpg/)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 03, 2011, 03:45:18 pm
Hmm, would seem to be 325689 32 for the attachement for the wire.

But where did you find this drawing? I lokked at Simons partnumber drawings, and that one is not so detailed. He also only has the holder for the transfer-bar with seem to be shattered in mine.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 03, 2011, 04:24:15 pm
The picture is a scan from a page of the French Murena parts manual.
It is online at the club.
It is 41mb, to much to send in a email, and I can't link because it is in the member section.
Can't attach it here because it is to big.( max 4mb)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 03, 2011, 04:30:52 pm
Dont you have Dropbox?

www.dropbox.com

A good way to exchange large files, keep a backup and an up-to-date archive several places.
I just sent you an invite now. try installing it, place the files you want to in the public folder, right click the file, and select get/copy public link. then jsut send the link to whom ever you want to share that file with.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 03, 2011, 04:58:56 pm
Few years back I had a server running for this kind of things.
The phone-line had problems with the upload so I shut it down.
Anyway, it's up for those who can use it.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28053705/Murena%20Partsbook.pdf


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: suffolkpete on May 03, 2011, 06:35:39 pm
This may help, I used it to repair my car, using secondhand parts.
http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1111.45.html


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 03, 2011, 10:54:38 pm
Since dropbox is installed it seems the files are partly collected at my computer to sync.
Sorry, but I uninstalled the program, so the file is not longer available for download..
To much sniffing, and I don't like things to be open wide on my system.
Maybe it is perfectly save, but no risk taken here.
It's better to store it on a server without the communication needed, and just a link.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 04, 2011, 08:35:49 am
I made it available in Google docs and it can be downloaded from there.
This feels a more save way to share docs.

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8uldPIaZ_naNzNkN2Y4YjgtOGJkZi00MmEwLTk4YWMtZGQxZWEwN2RjZDhk&hl=en


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on May 04, 2011, 09:08:07 am
I made it available in Google docs and it can be downloaded from there.
This feels a more save way to share docs.

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8uldPIaZ_naNzNkN2Y4YjgtOGJkZi00MmEwLTk4YWMtZGQxZWEwN2RjZDhk&hl=en

Great document. Too bad it apparently doesn't cover the 2.2 specific parts. :(


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 04, 2011, 09:14:29 am
It covers the 2.2 parts.
Look at the rows right from the drawings.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: JV on May 04, 2011, 10:51:57 am
Thanks, useful document.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on May 04, 2011, 02:34:02 pm
It covers the 2.2 parts.
Look at the rows right from the drawings.

I didn't notice any 2.2 drawings at first, but I now see that they are in there.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 05, 2011, 01:12:37 pm
Okay, here are the latest...

Seems I do have the sleeve-retainer, but lack the wire-locking thing....
(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5718/img4254medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/200/img4254medium.jpg/)

(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1098/img4255medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/135/img4255medium.jpg/)

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6804/img4262medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/img4262medium.jpg/)

If anybody has this one or one for spare, I would REALLY want to buy one, before trying make something by myself....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on May 05, 2011, 10:35:40 pm
Okay, here are the latest...

Seems I do have the sleeve-retainer, but lack the wire-locking thing....
--
One thing to make sure of is that the retainer puts a lot of pressure on the cable. Also that the wire moves smoothly in hte cable.

I had lots of problems with this because the retainer could not hold the the outer cable in place when popping up the lights. Result, the hood could be opened with lights up.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 06, 2011, 09:31:17 pm
I knew I had it somewhere.
Searching trough my nut and bolts I found a rusty piece.
It is in usable condition.
If you want it I can send it.
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/3674/p1030293medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/683/p1030293medium.jpg/)
(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/4532/p1030295medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/p1030295medium.jpg/)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 09, 2011, 09:37:11 am
Thanks Oetker, We will try a simpler solution here first, using a drilled stainless steel bolt and two locknuts. If it doesn't work, I'll keep your offer in mind  ;)

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2518/assembly1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/assembly1.jpg/)

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3092/assembly2m.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/assembly2m.jpg/)



Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on May 09, 2011, 12:05:05 pm
Hi Razorback.
Remember that the fitting must be able to rotate in the hole in the arm. Otherwise the wire will bend back and forth until it breaks.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 09, 2011, 12:16:13 pm
Already taken care of Jon  ;)

That's why we are using locknuts, since we then can the nut to stay, while still having enough room to swivle in. You can almost see the clearance between the nut nearest the head and the nut.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 10, 2011, 10:58:31 am
While still waiting to get the transfer-bar sandblasted, and getting new holders for it, I decided to "take the big step"....

Now is the time for overhauling the brakes....
I've gotten hold of Roys VERY use "Brake booklet"(thanks Roy)

Started on the front, got the caliper off the bolts, released the brake line, and drained of the fluid.
Got stuck a bit, until I firgured it was just a matter of pushing the pads to the center, then out.

Next was the "butterfly" clips(think that's what their called), and then the whole assembly could be slided apart.

Man, this thing is mucky and dirty..... gone need some serious elbowgrease and more to get this back into shape....

One question thou.... All of the gliding surfaces between the holder and the caliper, should they be sanded and polished to a mirror finish to ease the sliding between them...? ???
Nevermind... Just figured that the parts aren't moving here, the just "rest"on the aluminium wedges, which come new in the kit anyway.

Pictures wil come soon.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 10, 2011, 11:23:53 am
I suggest you make them look like this.
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7655/p1030499medium.jpg)
(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4459/p1020415medium.jpg)
I placed a new mounting-kit.
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/381/p1020037medium.jpg)
If the pistons in the calipers are rusted replace them.
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/36/p1020393medium.jpg)
Also brake-hoses and brake-lines are a point to control.
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9393/p1020417medium.jpg)
(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6740/p1020418medium.jpg)
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/4386/p1020458medium.jpg)

It is 30 years old, so I think it is best to replace and overhaul the complete system.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 10, 2011, 11:56:32 am
I suggest you make them look like this. Have plans on doing that, We have a good sandblaster at work, and I'm a skilled blaster. Also, at Biletema I found that they had a nice selection of caliper paints. Bought a can of gold and silver, and will try to see if I can find a color that could match the color of the car.
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7655/p1030499medium.jpg)
(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4459/p1020415medium.jpg)

I placed a new mounting-kit. Guess I'll be ordering one too. The "sliders on mine are heavily baked in black, hard crust...
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/381/p1020037medium.jpg)
If the pistons in the calipers are rusted replace them. Haven't seen them yet, would guess they would still be good, since there is no leaking of fluid.(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/36/p1020393medium.jpg)
Also brake-hoses and brake-lines are a point to control. Lines were replaced some years ago, but not a too good a job, so I'm considering replacing some/all of them. New hoses was included with the car, so will replace when reassemling.(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9393/p1020417medium.jpg)
(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6740/p1020418medium.jpg)
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/4386/p1020458medium.jpg)

It is 30 years old, so I think it is best to replace and overhaul the complete system. My thoughts also. My brakemaster, clutchmaster, and brakeservo have some serious surfacerust, probably some spilling when changing braketubes. so I'll try to get these blasted and coated in the matching caliperpaint.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 10, 2011, 01:09:36 pm
My pistons did't leak fluid, and front brakes did work OK, but after seeing the pistons
I desided to replace them with the seals.
Rust on the pistons will damage the seals and I think it was only a matter of time for them to start leaking.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 11, 2011, 09:58:31 am
So, here then is the first look at the front brakes.....

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3272/img4290medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/img4290medium.jpg/)

(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3463/img4291medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/img4291medium.jpg/)

Seems like the dirt is rather baked in... some rust also present. This is after a wash in the parts washer with mineral spirits.
Oetker, would the soda boiling disolve more of this?

Next up is the piston, a bit of rust on top, not unexpected, but looks decent enough further down the cylinder as far as I can see. Somehow the piston feels rather stuck now.... ???

Any ideas on how to get it out without ruining it.....?
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7193/img4277medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/img4277medium.jpg/)

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8680/img4281medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/img4281medium.jpg/)


The inside of the seal was filled with some black, sticky residue....cleaned it, and the seal seems ass good as ned. not brittle, craked and still soft.
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2729/img4279medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/42/img4279medium.jpg/)



Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 11, 2011, 01:21:39 pm
To get the piston out put air-pressure on the brake-line inlet.
Look out!!!!!!, it will come out like a rocket.
Think this pistons are stuck because of rust .

First de-rust as much as possible, then boil it before painting or protection stuff.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 11, 2011, 03:33:11 pm
Will try with some air pressure.... Really hope it's not rusted.... Have allready put down a list of parts from Simon for 650 Euros. And these pistons aren't cheap either....
On top of the fact that I'm gone be using around 2000 Euros on a new pistol this summer too....

Will have a go on the calipers with a wire brush, how strong solution of water/soda did you use Oetker?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 11, 2011, 04:02:52 pm
First de-rust as much as possible, I boiled it with 2 hands of soda.
The soda loosen the fat and the boiling makes it fluid and floating.
Poor the water out.
Put fosfor-acid on the calipers (best to first make them wet) and leave them for 24 hours.
It makes the rest of the rust Fe2o4 (magnetiet) and is a nice protection layer.
Then clean with lots of water and a brush and let it dry for a day or 2
Ready for painting.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: JL on May 11, 2011, 10:05:44 pm
If the pistons are really corroded in, use a grease gun to force grease into the calliper, it is much safer than having a piston flying loose around the workshop; if you remove the nozzle on the end of the gun the thread should be the same as the brake pipe inlet thread on the calliper - I have used this method successfully in the past.

To remove rust I used electrolysis on my Murena parts, it works really well; if you Google "rust removal by electrolysis" you will find many articles and I would thoroughly recommend the method.

Good Luck
John


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 11, 2011, 10:20:30 pm
With our trusted and free sandblaster at work, and my experience as a blaster, I probably will stick to this method.

Is there anywhere (besides piston cylinder and any threaded holes) that I should be aware of and not sandblast?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 13, 2011, 11:50:20 am
Decided to try to avoid these areas since the alu wedges will be places here.

(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4466/img4282medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/img4282medium.jpg/)

(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5402/img4284medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/153/img4284medium.jpg/)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 18, 2011, 04:08:30 pm
Now having the right piston out( had to use the greasegun...) it doesn't look too bad. a bit of rust on the surface where it meets the pad, but other then that it still looks untouched.
Guess I don't need need pistons on the front if the other side looks as good.

(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/6782/dsc0494medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/542/dsc0494medium.jpg/)

(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/6210/dsc0499medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/dsc0499medium.jpg/)

(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3169/dsc0490medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/dsc0490medium.jpg/)

(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/2379/dsc0500medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/200/dsc0500medium.jpg/)



Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 18, 2011, 11:25:02 pm
The piston looks in good order.
No need to replace.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 19, 2011, 12:29:42 pm
Here is the holder, now boiled in soda for a while, seems like it has a "bit" more rust then some of the others I've seen here on the forum, but a bit of blasting and a fresh coat of paint will hopefully bring it back to it's former glory.

(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6677/img4302medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/img4302medium.jpg/)

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3783/img4305medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/img4305medium.jpg/)

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1600/img4306medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/19/img4306medium.jpg/)

While on the subject of paint, I discovered the Biltema had a selection of caliperpaints in black, red, blue, silver and gold. Of these, red was out of the question immediately. too much "Brembo-look-a-like". Can't see blue as a matching color there either.... Black, what would be the point...?
Then I'm left with gold or silver..... would think that  the gold would be a too dark shade for the platine color of the car.
But hey, the platine is a "light" shade of gold. Kind of a champagne color. Could I come close with mixing the gold and the silver....?

Stay tuned for a paint-match-up.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 19, 2011, 01:19:29 pm
Nobody will notice if you pass by with around 120 Mph  :D


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 19, 2011, 01:44:38 pm
Oetker, you should know that a showcar like the Murena must look as good standing still as it does pasing by at 120 Mph  ;)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Bart_Maztra on May 22, 2011, 09:58:59 am
Just don't go this way.

(http://www.panom-autoservice.com/shop/p/panom-autoservice/img-lib/spd_20070723101108_b.jpg)

Don't search ebay for brembo caliper cover.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on June 08, 2011, 09:53:27 am
Here is a little color comparison. I wouldn't say is dead on, but since these will be inside the rim, this won't show up that much.
The square bit is a test sample using the correct Talbot colorcode.


Without flash
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9684/dsc0771large.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/dsc0771large.jpg/)


With flash
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/3168/dsc0770large.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/dsc0770large.jpg/)



Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on June 09, 2011, 09:20:27 am
Removed the clutch master yesterday, and noticed a couple of things.... Has anybody any idea what these two are....? The first looks like a cut hose underneath the clutchmaster, the other one is a unconnected wire on top of the right wheelarc....

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/1821/dsc0798large.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/dsc0798large.jpg/)


(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8475/dsc0799large.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/64/dsc0799large.jpg/)



Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on June 12, 2011, 10:55:48 am
I think the 2 wires both go to the side flashlight.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: klumzer on June 12, 2011, 12:25:01 pm
I agree with Oetker.
Side indicators were removed from my car by the former owner and wires look the same.
But if I can buy a set of indicators I will install them again.

If anyone has one for sale I would be interested in buying...  ;)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on June 12, 2011, 11:58:55 pm
Hmm, I'll check on it tomorrow, see if I can trace the wires from the indicators back there.

Any ideas on that tube-thing underneath the clutchmaster on the other picture?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: klumzer on June 13, 2011, 11:46:57 am
I checked my car yesterday but I could not see any similar...

But I have found some interesting things on it...  seems it needs a total overhaul...  :(


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: JL on June 13, 2011, 02:36:40 pm
Is the other thing just a piece of rubber pipe over the end of a bolt to stop the wiring loom rubbing through?

Regards
John


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on June 13, 2011, 07:47:56 pm
Removed the clutch master yesterday, and noticed a couple of things.... Has anybody any idea what these two are....? The first looks like a cut hose underneath the clutchmaster, the other one is a unconnected wire on top of the right wheelarc....
..
With this unconnected wire I bet you have a red lamp on your instrument panel with a symbol that looks like the hood with frog light up, as seen from the side. If you ground this wire the light will come on. It seems that there was an intention to have a switch sensing vacuum to the head lights and have the light come on if lights were up. But since that is pretty obvious, it was not used.
On later models the light has been replaced by a light showing if the choker is on. I have therefore made a switch that comes on when the choker is pulled and turns on the light.
The hose could also be a remnant from this. I wonder if it pulls vacuum and perhaps would have gone to this non-existing vacuum switch. Check if it pulls vacuum and then plug it if it does because that is a vacuum leak you don't need.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on June 14, 2011, 10:37:19 am
How about me checking a bit on my own before posting wildly......? :P

Seems JL was spot on! I just grabbed the camera and took the photo just as I was leaving the car, didn't take long to see what it really was thou.....
(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/4732/dsc0903large.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/dsc0903large.jpg/)


Checked on the left side wheelarc, and there I found these.....
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5668/dsc0901large.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/19/dsc0901large.jpg/)
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6589/dsc0902large.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/dsc0902large.jpg/)


Doublechecking with the wiring diagram, and following the leads, I quickly found them to be the leads for the rightside indicators.....

Only problem now, is that the indicators for both the left and the right side are a bit out of order....
These were just dangling loose inside, any ideas how they are to be fitted together...?
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7515/dsc0905large.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/dsc0905large.jpg/)


On the right side, the missing wire is nowhere to be found at all.... This is all that there is....
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8606/dsc0907large.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/171/dsc0907large.jpg/)




Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on June 14, 2011, 11:49:16 am
How about me checking a bit on my own before posting wildly......? :P

Seems JL was spot on! I just grabbed the camera and took the photo just as I was leaving the car, didn't take long to see what it really was thou.....
------------
Doublechecking with the wiring diagram, and following the leads, I quickly found them to be the leads for the rightside indicators.....

Only problem now, is that the indicators for both the left and the right side are a bit out of order....
These were just dangling loose inside, any ideas how they are to be fitted together...?
--------

On the right side, the missing wire is nowhere to be found at all.... This is all that there is....
--------
[/URL]
 I should have looked closer too.  :-[ I saw your first picture and assumed that the loose wire was in the vicinity. Closer view is obvious it is on top of the fender well in front of the blower compartment. Therefore not the wire I wrote about.  :o




Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: JV on June 14, 2011, 11:53:07 pm
These were just dangling loose inside, any ideas how they are to be fitted together...?
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7515/dsc0905large.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/dsc0905large.jpg/)


You can place the ring at the end of the wire into the socket (take care to have the lights switched off, otherwise it may cost you a fuse) and then you can place the bulb. The ring has to fall around the central contact in the socket without touching it.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on June 15, 2011, 08:22:40 am
Yes, I know where it goes, but there seem to be something with the bend on the eyelet wire. When inserted, the two rubber "gaskets" the one on the picture and the other on the indicatorlens are supposed to fit together tightly, this is not possible with the shape of this one now.....

So, could anybody supply a picture of them mounted together, or the parts looking the way they should....?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on June 15, 2011, 01:07:23 pm
And worse still, I can't find that missing wire in Simon's catalogue either.... Makes me kind of wondering if I should buy some other bulbholder.....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on July 04, 2011, 10:07:24 am
A little overview of the progress so far....

Rear brake right side
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6020/dsc1135medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/dsc1135medium.jpg/)


Rear brake left side
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4301/dsc1136medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/64/dsc1136medium.jpg/)


Brake booster with diaphragm
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9820/dsc1137medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/dsc1137medium.jpg/)


Cluth cylinder, brake cylinder and booster bracket.
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4037/dsc1138medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/dsc1138medium.jpg/)


Front brake right side
(http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/6547/dsc1139medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/813/dsc1139medium.jpg/)


Front brake left side
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8343/dsc1140medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/202/dsc1140medium.jpg/)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: klumzer on July 04, 2011, 10:14:23 pm
Nice job!



Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on July 04, 2011, 11:56:13 pm
Looks very need.
Way to go.
Goldy wil make progress this way.
Super


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on July 11, 2011, 11:49:22 pm
Just waiting for a load of parts from Simon now, are there any precautions that should be taken concerning torsion bars, springs etc?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on July 11, 2011, 11:51:00 pm
What are you planning to do?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on July 12, 2011, 12:04:56 am
All that is needed....

Or at least replacing everything rubber... Old, dried and cracked.
Stabilazer, shocks etc


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on July 12, 2011, 05:56:23 am
Stabilizer and front shocks are straigt forward jobs.
No special knowledge needed.
For stabilizer links nut tension look at the workshop manual (you have one ? most  of this things are described very well).
If you want to get rear shocks out you need to get the tension out the springs before getting them of.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on July 12, 2011, 11:49:10 am
Yes, I should have one of some kind somewhere. Think I'm missing some pages in it thou...

How about the torsion bar/struts? Any tension needes to be taken out?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Matra_Hans on July 12, 2011, 05:18:54 pm
the torsion bars: I would leave them in place the power of the torsion bars are very high, so take care if you go ahead and dismantle them.

Hans


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on July 13, 2011, 12:18:39 am
Is there sufficent info in the manual to be able to dismount and remount the torsion bars? Anybody know what part of the manual that is about suspension?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on July 13, 2011, 09:15:34 am
Yes, I should have one of some kind somewhere. Think I'm missing some pages in it thou...

How about the torsion bar/struts? Any tension needes to be taken out?

Torsion bars do not have a lot of "travel" (twisting) to do. I plan on taking mine off at some point, to clear rust from the mounting bar under the seats. I should think that, with the front lifted on stands and the front wheels hanging loose and off the ground, unscrewing the tension bolts will completely remove all tension. If not, I would suopport the lower arm with a jack, disconnect the lower steering joint from the arm and use the jack to lower it until tension was gone.
Rust on the splines will probably be the toughest challenge to getting them off the car.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on July 17, 2011, 12:45:37 pm
I couldn't find anything in my manual in the stabilasor link nut tension, seems like some pages missing. Could anybody please supply some info? On my old Cavalier/Ascona there was just an overall length of the strutt to achive correct tension.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on July 27, 2011, 11:07:17 am
Hmm, the rubber on my lower rear shocks is along with everyother rubberpiece on the car looking rather worn.

Is there no way of replacing just these since the shocks seems to ne working fine.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on July 29, 2011, 10:13:50 pm
Just recieved a lot of parts from Simon now, not TOO happy thou.... 9 items I ordered was not delivered, did not get any order confirmation prior on what was in stock either. One of the itmes was the mounting pieces for the brakes, springs, wedges etc.  >:(

But, on to todays happening. I have removed all shocks, springs and also the engine top cover. All these are to be sandblasted and repainted since they seiously need it! The engine top cover I have decisded on repainting as is in black.

Anybody have any good suggestions on colors for the shocks and springs...?
One ide I have was springs powercoated in white and shocks in red....

(http://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Products/Images/375be2bf-56eb-4225-b1cd-5b07c49f71ec/Shock+Absorber+Sport+rear+.jpg)

Alternativly, since I have plans on using some AN fittings, these might also do, picking up the same colors of the AN fittings.
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2461/freeshippingredaluminum.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/freeshippingredaluminum.jpg/)



Any thoughts, suggestions or other ideas from you guys?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on August 05, 2011, 10:09:15 am
Well, since nobody said anything I went looking myself.

Got stuck on getting someone closeby to powercoat the spring for me, but came across a "stonechip-proctector" spray on a closeby partsdealer(Torshov bil) which looked promising. black in color, flexibel, yet with a hard outer surface. Brought a can, and tried it out on some left ofer alu from work. Actually is seems to be rubber-in-a-can. tried to a flat hard rubber, very flexibel and would do just fine on my springs.

Yes, I know some may frown upon my choice here, but when restoring on a far to low budget, some compromises have to be made.

Upon realizing the black spring and the previosly chosen red damper would probably not go to good together, I went googling a bit more and came across this
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2300/bildei.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/bildei.jpg/)

Remembering that I still had some paint left over from the caliper(which now match the cars paint) I decided to also give the dampers the same treatment. First layer applied, spring new being blasted and will recieve the rubber paint this weekend. Yes I know they're not THAT golden as the picture, but you get the idea-

Before:
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9513/dsc1336medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/dsc1336medium.jpg/)


After
(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/9674/dsc1448medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/dsc1448medium.jpg/)


(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/885/dsc1450medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/dsc1450medium.jpg/)

(http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/9535/dsc1452medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/dsc1452medium.jpg/)


Spring sandblasted, prior to being with black "rubber"

(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6527/dsc1456medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/8/dsc1456medium.jpg/)

And first coat. It is actually a lot better then it looks here. flat rich black color.
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9210/dsc1460medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/dsc1460medium.jpg/)




Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on August 18, 2011, 09:57:16 am
Have done a little bit more this week, engine cover this time. Blasted and given a coat of "Heat-resistent" paint.

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4702/dsc3895medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/9/dsc3895medium.jpg/)

(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1929/dsc3897medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/683/dsc3897medium.jpg/)

(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/2493/dsc3913medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/717/dsc3913medium.jpg/)

(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6827/dsc3918medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/dsc3918medium.jpg/)

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/4340/dsc3920medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/dsc3920medium.jpg/)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on August 18, 2011, 11:18:38 am
Have done a little bit more this week, engine cover this time. Blasted and given a coat of "Heat-resistent" paint.

That looks good  ;D Make sure you got all the sand out of the inside compartment under the hose connector. Any sand would be flushed out by the oil and ruin your engine. :(


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on August 18, 2011, 12:30:47 pm
Thank you Graham, it's coming along nicely.

I know, there was a little leak on the maskingtape, so I got some sand inside the cover and up through to the oil filler hole. Think I have gotten most of it out now, but should rinse through it with something to loosen the oil so any sand will be flushed out.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 28, 2011, 08:45:18 am
Since Simon doesn't seem to ba able to supply the prats needed anymore(set of wedges and springs), and only has used sets in stock, I thought I might see if I could salvage the parts I have.

Stupid me didn't take any pictures when I dissasembled the calipers, so I have I little problem with which wedges that goes where.... Just to complete the confusion there seems to be several different wedges.... I would thought taht there were one type for the front and one for the back, well, I have three types.....

Does anybody know of how this should be.....?

Type one, the ones I guess goes on the front and are the orginal.(total 4EA)
(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8277/dsc1595medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/dsc1595medium.jpg/)


Type two, without the bent-down tab, (perhaps orginal on rear?)(total 2EA)
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8590/dsc1596medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/42/dsc1596medium.jpg/)


Type three, which lookes homemade, but are not that different from the type one(total 2 EA)
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/1999/dsc1597medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/dsc1597medium.jpg/)



Comparison of the different types
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1664/dsc1598medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/dsc1598medium.jpg/)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: uberprutser on September 28, 2011, 12:51:20 pm
You seem to have a lots of different wedges and not all of them are originals if you ask me.
The first picture are from the front brakes. These are the long once.
You can only mount them in one way. The split pin should be on the inside.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 28, 2011, 01:23:32 pm
That's what I was thinking too uberprutser, and I would think that the shorter ones with the two holes are for the rear, if anyone could confirm this. Only problem then would be getting a correct pair there too, now that Simon probably doesn't have any. So if anyone has any spares laying around, I would gladly like to buy them.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: northmurena on September 29, 2011, 10:08:32 am
Hi Per,

if you have problems to find parts make a try at Jürgen Roterberg. He´s my first source everytime when i want good and original parts or advice. The easiest way to communicate with him is via Facebook (close to 24 hours online). Catching him at the phone is not so easy.

~Kai


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: northmurena on September 29, 2011, 09:33:08 pm
Hi Per,

like i have heared you have found Jürgen and also a solution for your parts.

~Kai


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 29, 2011, 11:45:07 pm
I tried sending him an Email on the adress I found on the links page here on the forum, wasn't sure if I found him on Facebook or not... No answer on the mail yet thou.

On the other hand, I was contacted by a member on the forum which lives in Norway, he has a pair og wedges, the "type 3" ones which he got from MatraMagic. But I'm still curios on which ones are the original ones for the rear since the ones I have look a bit homemade


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: uberprutser on September 30, 2011, 08:38:45 am
As far as I can tell from the pictures you don't have any original wedges for the rear brakes.
They should look like this.

(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n544/wobbe98/div/DSCN0660.jpg)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on September 30, 2011, 01:05:49 pm
The plates with the 2 holes are Lancia parts.
These are perfectly good usable, but you need 2 locksprings to lock them in.
The Murena ones lock on one side with a lockspring and the other side like the picture.
(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/5568/rem10051.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/rem10051.jpg/)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on September 30, 2011, 01:48:57 pm
Thank you Oetker! Very informative picture. And thank you for the info and a very informative picture. If anybody has pictures like this that shows these parts, I'd be happy if you also would post them here.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on October 17, 2011, 08:30:23 am
Could anybody try to help me out a bit here....?
I purchased a set of rubbers for the shockabsorbers, upper mount, but now I'm not sure if it is for the front or the rear shocks....

This is the purchased item
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/4818/img4968k.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/img4968k.jpg/)

Original front upper mount
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3968/img4969q.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/710/img4969q.jpg/)

Original rear upper mount
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1743/img4970i.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/26/img4970i.jpg/)

My problem now is that the new set, looking at just the parts, seems to be a set for the rear, since the just have the one "cup".
But when looking better at the parts, sizewise it looks like it is for the front, since these are about the same size, and the rear parts are almost twice the size of the new and the orginal front parts.

 ???  ???  ???


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on October 17, 2011, 10:29:56 am
The new parts are front (upper picture).
This are my frontrubbers.
(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2357/p1010076medium.jpg)

The last picture is rear, they are bigger size.
This is my rear rubber mounted (Not the one right at the table, that is front so you can see the difference).
(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6014/p1020890medium.jpg)

The other pic I don't recognise as Matra.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on October 17, 2011, 11:43:53 am
The second picture are my original front upper mounts. From what I can understand from Simons invoice, it should be the front ones too, but if you look at the partlist drawing of these items, you see that there should be 2 "cups" on the front mounts as seen on my original. And only 1 on the rear, as my orginal rear and the purchased item....

Two "cups" on front.
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7994/pic120i.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/406/pic120i.jpg/)

One "cup" on rear
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1876/pic126f.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/171/pic126f.jpg/)



Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on October 17, 2011, 11:57:18 am
Yep you're right, its been a while, I looked at a set of spare front Koni's I have for the Murena and ther are 2 plates for each shock.
You have one to little.
(http://i53.tinypic.com/2hflxkz.jpg)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on October 17, 2011, 01:19:35 pm
Hmm, strange that there should be one missing in both the sets thou.... And it contained only one nut. Which is why i thought they might be for the rear, where the are much much smaller then the ones fitted....

still clueless.....  ???  ???


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on October 27, 2011, 08:54:41 am
Yes! Finally got the rear caliper back together again today. Been strugling with the handbrake part of it for some days, not being able to compress enough to get the levershaft through.

Seems like I started out with the piston set to deep in the caliper so the prodruding shaft would not go deep enough to allow the levershaft trough.
so after twisting the piston some turns out, I still wasn't able to get the shaft trough, even when compressing the springs in a heavy duty press at work....

Just a little twist of the protruding shaft, and it sank right on down, allowing for more than enough workspace for fitting the wegde, spring and levershaft effordlessly!  ;D

So, with the tough part of the job done, all that remains now is fitting all the calipers and holder to the car, bleeding the system(brake and clutch) assembling gearlever alongside the clutch(had to be removed for workspace of stuck clutchslave), assembling and mounting shocks and springs, and then it is ready to go into winterstorage( hopefully before the snow surprises me like it did last year and my baby has to endure a whole winter outdoors....)  :o


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on November 08, 2011, 08:37:50 am
Have now assembled the brakes on Goldie, seems to be coming along nicely now.  ;D

Rear bracket mounted
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2135/dsc1746medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/148/dsc1746medium.jpg/)


Pads with spring in place
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/3217/dsc1748medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/dsc1748medium.jpg/)

Note correct orientation of piston for bleeding purpose.
(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/6652/dsc1753medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/dsc1753medium.jpg/)

Caliper in place, awaiting wedges
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2655/dsc1754medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/215/dsc1754medium.jpg/)

Caliper in place with wegdes
(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7150/dsc1755medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/337/dsc1755medium.jpg/)

And secured
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7618/dsc1756medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/16/dsc1756medium.jpg/)

Same procedure for the front: Holder in place. Also note the matching shocks.
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6692/dsc1758medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/dsc1758medium.jpg/)

Pads with springs
(http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/642/dsc1759medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/249/dsc1759medium.jpg/)

Caliper in place
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7828/dsc1760medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/171/dsc1760medium.jpg/)

And complete
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9108/dsc1761medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/dsc1761medium.jpg/)

And as you can see, new discbrakes are high on the wishlist....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on November 08, 2011, 09:13:04 am
Looks good.
Only one remark.
The tensionsprings on the rear should be like this according tot the manual.
(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4272/p1000475mediumnf4.jpg)
One stupid thing about it.
On the front they need to be mounted like yours.
Strange, did they drink to much when drawing the manual or is there a reason?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Jon Weywadt on November 08, 2011, 09:18:25 am

And as you can see, new discbrakes are high on the wishlist....


You mean new "disks" I assume. Otherwise you definitely need to have yours turned before trying to stop the car with them.  ;) The rust and pitting will never make them work well otherwise.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on November 08, 2011, 10:13:57 am
Looks good.
Only one remark.
The tensionsprings on the rear should be like this according tot the manual.

One stupid thing about it.
On the front they need to be mounted like yours.
Strange, did they drink to much when drawing the manual or is there a reason?

Hmm, will pop them of and fix their position. Seemed to retain the pads this way too thou. To much french wine at lunchtime is my guess.... :D


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on November 08, 2011, 10:17:27 am

And as you can see, new discbrakes are high on the wishlist....


You mean new "disks" I assume. Otherwise you definitely need to have yours turned before trying to stop the car with them.  ;) The rust and pitting will never make them work well otherwise.

Yes new disks.... I don't think they are that heavily pitted, a fair amount of surface rust, but that wasn't unexected either, been standing much to long still now this "old gal". Having the guys at works turn them in shouldn't be a problem, at my former workplace, we also had a tool to turn in place on the car.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: klumzer on November 08, 2011, 06:14:31 pm
Nice!  :)
It looks good!


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on November 15, 2011, 02:21:56 pm
Nice!  :)
It looks good!

Thank you klumzer.

But I need only look to another of my countrymen to see how a real job should be done.... look at this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldz10F37SXw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldz10F37SXw)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on November 15, 2011, 02:22:27 pm
Hmm, went down to to some of the final work on my car for the season. Last thing left to do was to bleed the brakes. Used a bleed kit with a oneway-valve fitted, so no need to open and close the bleedvalve for every push of the pedal.

Front curcuit went just fine, stream of bubbles and the solid stream of brake fluid.
Rear curcuit on the other hand.....
Sat there, pumping away til the cows came home..... No reaction at the bleedvalve. Put the hose in the ear while my assistent pumped the pedal. Not a sound.... Something is seriously wrong. Shouldn't I be able to hear the sound of some passing wind(;D) through the hose?

And since something is wrong, what coukd it be? Even if some of the seal were put the wrong way, some pressure should be building up? On the front curcuit there has even trinkled enough through the pipes that it came out of the not tightend bleedvalve without applying pressure to the pedal.

Is there anything in the distibuton valve fitted ahead of the right rear wheel?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on November 15, 2011, 02:22:53 pm
UPDATE:

Have now removed brakeline from distributionvalve, no sign of fluid.... followed line to brakemaster, and disconnected. Still no sign there either, so wil now drain the reservour for the remaining fluid, unscrew, remove and inspect the whole brakemaster(again....)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on November 15, 2011, 02:28:10 pm
Okay,now we are getting somewhere....

Just opened the brakemaster, and seems like I may have found the problem.... Or problems.... Seems to be all my fault, not looking good enough at Roy's manual.

First, it seems like I have managed to insert the inner(rear) piston the wrong way, which would make it impossible to build pressure, since the valve inside would then let air back through.

Secondly, the springs were swapped. Perhaps this didn't do anything, but it's nice to have them correctly.

And thirdly, also not sure, but there was a possibilty that the piston was not inserted deeply enough for the pin to lock it, could have been inserted to it locked the piston from moving, which wouldn't help on getting any pressure in the curcuit.

Alll these have now been fixed, so will try to reassemble later today, and bleed the system. Hopefully that will fix it now.

How it was fitted:
(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/3913/img0180d.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/img0180d.jpg/)






Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: maxderoswell on March 25, 2012, 03:25:11 pm
Does anybody know which connector this is...? I have difficulty identifying it, and one side is connected with 6 wires, the other with just 5....  ???

Hello,

this wires go to the Lucas 6DA Wiper control modul.

It's for the wiper speed.

Friendly

Mathieu


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on July 16, 2012, 03:03:20 am
Okay, after a rather eventfull summer, lost girlfriend  ;D but got new job  ;D, I have looked a little at my dear old Goldie.

Figured it was time to do something about the "not running smoothly" thing.
When I brought her, she was barely limping, had to hav almost full choke.
Tracked the first problem to be the breatherhose from the enginecover. It wasn't loose, it was completly open!
After fitting now hoses, she got better, but was still sounding like an astmathic grandmother.
Needed a lot less choke, but cut the choke and she would spit like hell and die out.
Like many, I have suspected a little airleak somewhere, so i went round and have replaced all(I think) vacuumhoses with new ones. still showe improvment, but not there yet.

So, yesterday I had an idea. there are ywo vacuum ports on the intakemanifold, since I didn't have anything to plug them with, I just shorted them with a piece of vacuumtube, and fired the old gal.

How's this for not using ANY choke on her...?  ;D

http://youtu.be/UpDdAcgxeJQ?hd=1

Tried her a little slowly up the street, and there seems to still be something "funny" going on...
although no choke was needed, she still switched between reving normally and spitting like hell when I hit the accelerator....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 16, 2012, 10:44:43 pm
Good to hear you're still keeping your spirits high... The two vacuum hoses you disconnected go to the headlight vacuum system, which is notorious for giving problems, and to the brake vacuum booster, which could also be leaking. The stiff pipe connecting the booster and engine could also crack. It's a good idea to disconnect them since that allows you to test for other problems.

I suggest your next step is to renew the manifold gasket: It could very well be leaking. The most difficult thing about the job is to get access to the nuts on the bottom side of the manifold, but it's not that bad if you take it easy.

I remember you had the carb off to clean it: Did you check for any spindle play? Carburettor spindles are a common source of vacuum leaks. It's normally the main spindle that leaks since that does most of the movement and if there's a lot of play, it is possible to take the spindle out and grease it well with silicone grease which resists petrol to some degree. That should get you going for a while.

/Anders


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on July 17, 2012, 12:59:07 am
Good to hear you're still keeping your spirits high... The two vacuum hoses you disconnected go to the headlight vacuum system, which is notorious for giving problems, and to the brake vacuum booster, which could also be leaking. The stiff pipe connecting the booster and engine could also crack. It's a good idea to disconnect them since that allows you to test for other problems.

I suggest your next step is to renew the manifold gasket: It could very well be leaking. The most difficult thing about the job is to get access to the nuts on the bottom side of the manifold, but it's not that bad if you take it easy.

I remember you had the carb off to clean it: Did you check for any spindle play? Carburettor spindles are a common source of vacuum leaks. It's normally the main spindle that leaks since that does most of the movement and if there's a lot of play, it is possible to take the spindle out and grease it well with silicone grease which resists petrol to some degree. That should get you going for a while.

/Anders

I see your point Anders, but surely the main reason has got to be somewhere in the vacuum system, since with it bypassed it idled perfectly. Come to think of it, it probably has unleaded 95 without lead substitute additive... Could that be the reason...?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 17, 2012, 08:41:45 am
No I don't think fuel octane could be the cause of this problem.

Getting the car to idle is usually not a problem despite vacuum leaks: It's just a question of giving the idle screw a turn or two more outwards. But you are probably finding that idle isn't completely stable.

You really have to be systematic here: You have found and temporarily fixed a vacuum leaks. There are likely to be at leat one more, so I'd go and look for it :)

/Anders


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on July 17, 2012, 09:06:35 am
There is a good method to find vacume leaks.
Start the engine and adjust idle that it stays running.
Use a spray-gun (could be a old glass-clean bottle) with water.
Spray at inlet-manifold an other suspected points.
If the engine react on the spray you found a leak.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on July 24, 2012, 06:14:10 pm
I was playing around some more with the car today(not much time between rainshowers and a nasty seperation here now....), trying to track further down what could be the leak. It was ideling very good, choughed a little if I gave it to much throttle at once, whereas a bit moderat acceleration gave no problem. Suddenly when it coughed, I noticed my habd was hit by some gasoline(Yes I was in the back revingit by hand) From what I can tell, this shouldn't happen, and would indicate some gasket around there gone bad....

This is a view in that direction(snatched from Anders D.)
The top gasket between the plastiv neck and carb, seem fine, but dry.
The gasket between the two halfes is a bit harder to tell, but I wouldn't think there could be any pressure bolwing out this way...
The two at the spacer also seemed fine but try.

Could some/any of these gaskets be made from materials brought wholesale, or are there very spesific materials where they are?
And if so, would anybody happen to have those two at the spacer laying around left over....?

NOT MY PIC! WILL POST WHEN TAKEN
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/1139/34cicrightside.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/34cicrightside.jpg/)
NOT MY PIC! WILL POST WHEN TAKEN


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 25, 2012, 06:09:30 am
If petrol sprays out of the carburettor when you operate the throttle levers, it must be coming from the acceleration pump. This could explain the behaviour you're seeing as without the acceleration pump, the engine will not take throttle.

The acceleration pump is the only part of the system where there is any kind of fuel pressure involved - otherwhise, a carburettor works by suction only. And my first thought is: Did you fit a correct o-ring in the stud that connects the top and bottom parts of the carburettor?

The o-ring that comes with the gasket kit is too large; fitting it results in this:
(http://dinsen.net/murena/carburettor/brokenseal.jpg)

See: http://dinsen.net/murena/carburettor/maintenance

/Anders

PS: I don't mind at all you using my photos if you find them useful for illustration


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on July 25, 2012, 07:10:02 am
Hmm, what would be the correct size for that o-ring Anders?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 25, 2012, 08:54:59 am
Quote from my page  :)

"This must fit the 2 mm groove in the spigot and the 5.5 mm matching recess."

So a 2 x 2 mm o-ring should seal tightly.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on July 29, 2012, 07:57:44 pm
Hmm Anders, does this seem familiar....?   :o
(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5516/cimg0658medium.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/201/cimg0658medium.jpg/)

so, next will be to get a correct size O-ring. How about the gaskets? I seem to have a reapirset for the carb from Simon, but this does not have the gaskets between the manifold/spacer and not between the airpipe-bend.
Can these be made from the paper or fibercloth "gasket-raw-material" availible at Biltema....?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 29, 2012, 08:25:47 pm
Hmm, yes it reminds me of something  ;D

Don't worry about the two gaskets on the bottom and the one on the top of the carb, as unless they are obviously blown or cracked, they will be ok.
The new main gasket (inside the carb) will need to have the hole to the spigot extended a bit.

/Anders


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on July 29, 2012, 08:33:54 pm
Widening the hole(or mounting the o-ring after the gasket shouldn't be a problem.

I think I will try to make new ones, since the are extremly dry and would crack if I looked at them the wrong way....
Any ideas as to paper or fiber for the gasket....?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on July 30, 2012, 05:59:26 am
The o-ring is not to be found in car-shops.
I found the right O-ring at a parts-delivery firm for agricultural machinery.
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7537/p1030245medium.jpg)
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2337/p1030246medium.jpg)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on August 03, 2012, 01:19:54 pm
If anybody have a supplier that have some of these i stock, it could be wise to buy up some perhaps.
I think I found some that may be the right size yesterday, it fitted on the sipgot, and entered the hole with enough seal to place the top part of the carb a bit up in the air so it will compress the joined and screwed together.

If this one proves to be sufficent, I will probably buy some of them so we will have little stock we all can use. Only cost 0,75Euro.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on August 07, 2012, 11:44:48 am
Are we absolutly sure that there is supposed to just be an o-ting on the spigot? I know that's what's in the bag from Simon, but a colleague of mine here who looked at it bothe the pictures and the parts meant that a simring would better hold up the pressure, seal better and fit better.

from Anders' other pictures and mine it could almost look like there is some kind of other seal further up on the stem, and then an o-ring or similar on the recess...

Any input?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 07, 2012, 08:10:31 pm
Yes, we're absolutely sure that the carburettor is designed for an o-ring to seal there. Nothing more! :)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 01, 2013, 06:03:14 pm
Could I ask some of you to take a picture of a part on the carburator? I've been looking at in here now, and really can not see that there is any way that the arm on the OVAD valve (Ouverture du volet après départ à froid) can be can be activated by the gas,- or choke linkage.

(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9375/cimg2622l.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/526/cimg2622l.jpg/)


Also, there is a spring holding it in the "out" position, is this correct? if it is to be springing the other way, it might reach some part of the linkage, but I have never had it open so much that the spring could have changed position....

(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/247/cimg2623l.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29/cimg2623l.jpg/)

Or if you see any other mistakes on the carb, please let me know....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 11, 2013, 12:00:54 am
Nobody with access to their carburattor and a camera....?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: GL on April 11, 2013, 10:53:34 am
Nobody with access to their carburattor and a camera....?

Here you are:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img687/9840/05042013994.jpg)

I think this is original. Also no spring...


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 03, 2014, 03:22:28 am
Have had a little time to work on Goldie again after WAY too long time...

Took of the  plastic neck on the carb today to check if the acc pump was working, and yes it seems to spray correctly now, but still doesn't run properly.
But seems I might have gotten something wrong... When I try to accelerate hard it actually backfire back up the carb...
Any ideas...? I would guess that if the lead had somehow been switched, it wouldn't idle as smoothly as it does. Other distributor problems maybe...?

And also, I opened up the green thingy between the carb and engine cover today, is this supposed to be a one-way valve? Mine was just a strainer but one of the discs in there looked a bit strange, will post pictures of it tomorrow.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: variator on May 03, 2014, 02:12:22 pm
Hei,

Good to see you soon on the road :)

This is how it looks on my car:


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: klumzer on May 03, 2014, 08:40:51 pm
Hej,

The green thing is an oil separator. (Maybe there is a better word for it in English, someone can correct it.)

There are a lot of perforated discs inside to get oil from the air/fumes above the valves. The air goes into the air duct and the separated oil goes downstream the carb.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: variator on May 03, 2014, 09:29:08 pm
The oil mist from the crankcase goes through this and back into the intake. Many years ago this was just a pipe that went into the open air. Now the oil mist being burned in the engine.According to official rules


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 05, 2014, 10:28:37 am
Hej,

The green thing is an oil separator. (Maybe there is a better word for it in English, someone can correct it.)

There are a lot of perforated discs inside to get oil from the air/fumes above the valves. The air goes into the air duct and the separated oil goes downstream the carb.


Okay, if it's just a separator it looks to be as it should. Just seemed to remember somewhere that someone said it was a oneway-valve also. But won't this draw a lot of false air to the bottom of the inlet manifold, since this is also connected to the plastic neck above the carburator?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 05, 2014, 01:01:27 pm
But back to the engine problem...
What would cause the backfires up the carburator? Timing being off, so that it would spark when the inlet valve was open?


Could someone also give me a run-down on the how-to's of adjusting the timing with a stroboskop?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: GP on May 05, 2014, 07:20:37 pm
Probably too much information here (ignore the last bit) but you are looking for 10 deg at 900 rpm. ignition advance at idle. (I use 12 deg. myself).  
I suspect your strobe light is a bit more basic than this one and it probably just plugs onto the spark plug and into the H.T. Lead. Cap.  
N.B. No. 1 cylinder is the one nearest the distributor.
The timing marks are on the flywheel through the viewing hole at the top of the gearbox. Mark them with white paint for extra clarity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYGU7mTwsZc

As an aside has the camshaft been out recently as this could be in the wrong place. I have seen some great bangs with this set up wrong!


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 07, 2014, 09:42:20 pm
No GP, it's about the same as that one. Instructions were about the same as you described.

Here are the Pictures and video I managed to capture during.

Click the last one for a video.


(http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r434/paknive/CIMG5219Medium_zps8c56cc69.jpg) (http://s354.photobucket.com/user/paknive/media/CIMG5219Medium_zps8c56cc69.jpg.html)

(http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r434/paknive/CIMG5218Medium_zps7d4f75c7.jpg) (http://s354.photobucket.com/user/paknive/media/CIMG5218Medium_zps7d4f75c7.jpg.html)

(http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r434/paknive/th_CIMG5212_zpsc37e5460.jpg) (http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r434/paknive/CIMG5212_zpsc37e5460.mp4)


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: roy4matra on May 11, 2014, 12:25:09 pm
N.B. No. 1 cylinder is the one nearest the distributor.

NO IT IS NOT.

No.1 cylinder on these engines is next to the flywheel.  Talbot and Simca before them for some reason counted backwards. :-)  Unlike most engines where No.1 cylinder is at the front next to the timing case, these engines have No.1 at the flywheel end and No.4 at the timing case end.  If you check the cylinder block (below the head joint on the exhaust side) you will see the cylinder numbers cast into the block.

So for ignition timing it is the cylinder next to the flywheel that must be timed to that cut mark in the flywheel, and as stated the static timing is 10 degrees before top dead centre.

Regarding the distributor, if it has ever been taken out, the offset connection at its base means it can only go back with the shaft in the same rotational place.  However, if whilst the distributor was out you also removed the distributor drive piece with the skew gear that mates with the camshaft, then this can be put back in various positions since there are many teeth.  If it is mated with the camshaft in a different rotational position, the distributor now has to be reset too.  You can still get the car to work fine but the H.T. leads may now be in different positions too.  Anyone who has worked with older Ford engines where the gear was always attached directly to the distributor shaft or who understands these things, will understand what I am talking about.  I could for instance set a 2.2 to run properly with the drive gear mated in any of the different teeth mating positions, but the distributor and possibly leads would need to be set individually for each setting.  The firing order always stays the same of course.

Roy


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: roy4matra on May 11, 2014, 12:45:49 pm
But back to the engine problem...
What would cause the backfires up the carburator?

As a general rule, backfires in the intake are caused by weak mixtures and backfires in the exhaust are caused by rich mixtures, providing everything else is correct.

Roy


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: roy4matra on May 11, 2014, 01:17:25 pm
Hej,

The green thing is an oil separator. (Maybe there is a better word for it in English, someone can correct it.)

There are a lot of perforated discs inside to get oil from the air/fumes above the valves. The air goes into the air duct and the separated oil goes downstream the carb.

Okay, if it's just a separator it looks to be as it should. Just seemed to remember somewhere that someone said it was a oneway-valve also. But won't this draw a lot of false air to the bottom of the inlet manifold, since this is also connected to the plastic neck above the carburator?

** This is an important point you are discussing here so can I please explain for all owners not just you. **

Any engine produces a small amount of crankcase compression owing the pistons going down just the same as they produce compression in the cylinder head going up, but since the volume below is much larger, it is not a lot, but it is still there.  Now in older engines, say back in the sixties, this compression was simply vented to atmosphere but since it contains an oil mist, they often had a wire mesh that the air/oil mist had to pass through to try to retain the oil part.  However, you got a lot of oil on the roads over the years from all the engines pushing out these fumes.

Now steps were taken to stop this pollution and so more modern engines are no longer allowed to vent the crankcase to atmosphere.  You cannot simply close off any vents though without doing something about the crankcase compression.  So they decided to 'vent' it back into the engine intake and let the engine consume it.  You need to try to stop the oil passing into the carb. too, so you have an air/oil separator.  On the Murena this is the green plastic item connected to the intake below the carburettor, to the air intake elbow above the carburettor and the cam cover.

It works like this: The vacuum in the intake manifold is used to draw the air/oil out from the crankcase via the connection to the cam cover and create a slight vacuum in the crankcase.  THIS IS IMPORTANT and if it is not there you will get more oil leaks from the engine as the slight pressure tries to find a way out.  As the air/oil is drawn into the green separator the perforated discs separate the oil from the air and the tiny bit of oil is drawn into the inlet manifold below the carb. and gets consumed by the engine.  The majority of the crankcase air is drawn into the intake elbow above the carburettor and passes through it in the normal way.

Since the connection air hole into the inlet manifold below the carb. is very small and hot oil is passing through it, it can carbon up and get blocked, and the system then fails to work properly and the carburettor will probably get very oily.  So you must make sure the air hole is kept clear.  This is why one of the service items is to check this crankcase breather system periodically (every major service), checking the air hole is clear and if necessary replacing the green oil separator if it gets too clogged.  You can sometimes open it up and clean the discs and re-assemble it, but it was originally glued together so you will need to re-glue it back afterwards.

Now I know, since I have seen them, many people who modify their engines with twin side-draught carbs. or change the air intake filter system, often leave off this PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system and often just vent the cam cover to atmosphere.  This should never be done, partly as you breaking regulations, partly as you will be causing more road and air pollution, but also you are creating the right conditions for minor oil leaks from the engine crankcase.  I once saw a Murena 2.2 that continually pushed the dipstick up and unseated the rubber at the top so it could vent the pressure there, and of course this meant there was always a film of oil mist all over the engine compartment!  This was entirely due to the PCV system being closed off.

So please understand why that green air/oil separator is there, why it is a service item every 30,000 km, why it is important that the tiny hole in the connect is clear, and please don't vent your crankcases to atmosphere.

Roy


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: roy4matra on May 11, 2014, 01:49:13 pm
I've been looking at in here now, and really can not see that there is any way that the arm on the OVAD valve (Ouverture du volet après départ à froid) can be can be activated by the gas,- or choke linkage.

That small diaphragm on the carb. operates the arm sticking out of it.  All that happens is that when you pull the choke out fully, the strangler flap at the top closes restricting air intake.  When the engine fires it needs more air and the high vacuum created in the inlet causes the diaphragm to pull that rod back and pulls the strangler flap open to allow more air in.  Try it manually without the engine running.  Open the choke fully and you will see the strangler flap on the top close.  Now look at the bend at the end of the rod from the diaphragm.  It is close to the strangler linkage.  As soon as the rod is pulled back the bend at the end will move the linkage and open the flap.  It doesn't need any return spring or other connection, it is simply pulled back by the diaphragm and returns to its rest position when the diaphragm relaxes as the vacuum drops.

Roy


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 14, 2014, 10:14:30 am
But back to the engine problem...
What would cause the backfires up the carburator?

As a general rule, backfires in the intake are caused by weak mixtures and backfires in the exhaust are caused by rich mixtures, providing everything else is correct.

Roy

Roy, how would you say the timing looks set on my car?

Can't imagine why it should be running weak now... have blocked of the vacuumpoints on the intake manifold, the accelerator pump diaphragm has been replaced and checked that it does works now(looked down the carb as it backfired and scared me shitless...)

Possibley switched the main jets? Any other suggestions?


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: roy4matra on May 15, 2014, 09:50:17 pm
But back to the engine problem...
What would cause the backfires up the carburator?

As a general rule, backfires in the intake are caused by weak mixtures and backfires in the exhaust are caused by rich mixtures, providing everything else is correct.

Roy

Roy, how would you say the timing looks set on my car?


That timing looks spot on 10 degrees, so it is probably not the timing that is the cause of the backfire.  You are still using the original Solex 34CIC carburettor?

Quote

Possibley switched the main jets? Any other suggestions?


I need to know more about your engine and set up first.  Is the engine standard or bored out?  What is the camshaft, standard or tuned?  Have any mods. been done to the carb.  Have you checked the engine when running with either a vacuum gauge or oscilloscope?  Particularly if the camshaft has been modified, has the valve timing been checked?  These and other things can all affect the engine running.  Forgive me if you have mentioned the set up before in the threads on this forum but I don't want to have to trawl though many pages just to see if the info is there anywhere.  It could take a looooong time. :-)

Roy


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 16, 2014, 09:12:29 am
But back to the engine problem...
What would cause the backfires up the carburator?

As a general rule, backfires in the intake are caused by weak mixtures and backfires in the exhaust are caused by rich mixtures, providing everything else is correct.

Roy

Roy, how would you say the timing looks set on my car?


That timing looks spot on 10 degrees, so it is probably not the timing that is the cause of the backfire.  You are still using the original Solex 34CIC carburettor?

Quote

Possibley switched the main jets? Any other suggestions?


I need to know more about your engine and set up first.  Is the engine standard or bored out?  What is the camshaft, standard or tuned?  Have any mods. been done to the carb.  Have you checked the engine when running with either a vacuum gauge or oscilloscope?  Particularly if the camshaft has been modified, has the valve timing been checked?  These and other things can all affect the engine running.  Forgive me if you have mentioned the set up before in the threads on this forum but I don't want to have to trawl though many pages just to see if the info is there anywhere.  It could take a looooong time. :-)

Roy

Yes, still using the original one. No modification has been done to it as far as i know, other then replacing the gaskets and diaphragms.
Engine is standard, again, as far as i know, since i would believe that previous owners would have informed if there had been any modification.
Camshaft should be original also. As far as i know, no major modifications or other works has ever been done to the car, so should be original with regards to the engine.
One thing thou, probably nothing to do with these problems, but my temprature sensor is busted.
i don't have a vacuum gauge or oscilloscope, so it has not been checked with that.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: roy4matra on May 16, 2014, 08:04:47 pm
Yes, still using the original one. (carb.) No modification has been done to it as far as i know, other then replacing the gaskets and diaphragms.
Engine is standard, again, as far as i know, since i would believe that previous owners would have informed if there had been any modification.
Camshaft should be original also. As far as i know, no major modifications or other works has ever been done to the car, so should be original with regards to the engine.
One thing thou, probably nothing to do with these problems, but my temprature sensor is busted.
i don't have a vacuum gauge or oscilloscope, so it has not been checked with that.

(Please note I have updated this slightly 17th May)

O.K. thanks for updating me.  I have to say that it surprises me that you have an engine so original and standard as so many have been uprated, but that is just a comment not a criticism.

Now with regard to the backfire I have to say that since the timing looks just about spot on, and certainly not inaccurate enough to cause a problem, and with everything else just about standard, it leaves only one conclusion - it suggests the mixture must be weak, so that means either there is insufficient fuel or some additional air is getting in somewhere.  I'm assuming the basics have been checked and all the compressions are good and the valve clearances are correct?  If not then you need to do this since you could for instance have a valve not sealing on its seat and causing problems.  You mention changing jets in the carb. but if it is original and nothing has ever been altered then why would you have to do that?  It worked originally so it should still be correct.   No, the problem is something has changed from when it ran correctly, so you have to find out what has changed and repair it.

Oh one more thing I have just remembered I needed to ask.  What grade fuel are you running?  Any standard 2.2 Murena should be running the high octane fuel i.e. 97 or 98 octane.  The normal (in Europe) 95 octane is not good enough.  Whilst it may not be the cause of this backfire, you will get 'pinking' or pre-ignition with it and this can cause detonation, which can easily be mistaken for pre-ignition but is so damaging that it can melt holes in pistons and generally ruin an engine.  It is simply not worth the risk.  If you cannot get the high octane version where you are, then please make sure you use some Octane booster additive in your fuel.  I have run six 2.2 engines over the last thirty plus years since 1983 and not one has run cleanly on 95 octane, so although I have heard others say they have, I'm sorry but I don't trust that information.

I know that in one case of someone saying that he ran 95 and it was fine - when I was in that car I could hear the pinking and when I pointed it out, his comment was 'Oh is that what that is'!  So his comment about the car running fine on 95 was not true - it was just he did not realise it was not running correctly.  He was lucky he had not done any damage.  There is one other thing regarding this - if you drive the car really gently you may not experience the level of problem this causes, but I don't understand anyone buying a Murena and then driving it that 'gently'.  It is a sports car and a great one at that, and I certainly drive mine like a sports car which means quite hard and fast at times when conditions allow.  I still use full revs when required.  Age is not a reason to treat these any different - provided the car is maintained properly it is just as capable today as it was originally.

So back to the problem.  The reason I asked about whether you had used a vacuum gauge is that these can be quite a cheap and easy to use tool which can easily point to problems.  Another useful tool can be the Colourtune plug, although with the position of the plug holes and the engine in the Murena these are not easy to use in this particular application.  Whilst you said you have blocked all the vacuum connections off so none of those could be the cause, what about the inlet manifold?  Have you removed and checked the gaskets?  You could have a small air leak past a failed gasket between the manifold and head?  Or between the carb. and manifold.  Or the manifold itself could have a tiny hole or small porosity - it is after all an aluminium casting and these can sometimes be porous.  When was the last time it ran properly and what has been done since that time?  It is when things are done that changes occur and problems can start because of those changes or something else that happened inadvertently.

Have you had an exhaust emission CO test reading recently on the engine?  Since these engines use carburettors, the CO level should be around 2.0% - 2.5% at idle and the HC ppm level should be around 150-200.  Modern fuel injected engines might manage 0.5% CO or lower but you never want to try to get anywhere near that level with a Murena (or any carb. engine)  It is simply too weak and will lead to damage.  The European test level acceptable for this age and type of engine is actually 3.5% max CO and 1200 ppm HC. and the Murena can easily pass this test as 3.5% is quite rich and any figure greater than say 350-400 ppm HC would also point to a problem for this standard engine.  If any European country tries to impose a tighter level than these engines are capable of, then they are being stupid.

So if you have some CO/HC readings I would be interested to see the results.

The only other thing I can think of at this moment is that if the cut in the flywheel is in the wrong place it could mislead as to the the correct timing.  Now if the engine has never been apart so the flywheel is still original and fitted in the original place, it must be correct.  But you should be able to double check this anyway as I had to do once on a 2.2 in someone else's Murena.  Since this engine was originally in the Tagora 2.2 and is based on the Chrysler 180/2-litre which were all front engined cars, the original timing case marks are still on the engine.  They may not be so easy to get at but you can check them.  The lower timing case has the timing marks cast into it near the crankshaft pulley, and the pulley should have the small notch in it.  So if you line this notch up with the 10 degree mark on the timing case, you should then find the cut in the flywheel is lined up with the 10 degree mark on the clutch bell housing.  If it is not then there is a problem!

Roy


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: Oetker on May 18, 2014, 02:55:55 pm
I also had pinging on lean mixtures with some fuels so I stay on super 98.
That's in my opinion also recommended and several user manuals say it's needed.
Later some story's appeared that the 2.2 can handle the lean mixtures like 95 but that's not my experience to.
Also take care not to put in the new fuels (E5+ - E10+), there is (m)ethanol added and it can kill your engine.

There is a easy trick to find out if the inlet manifold is leaking by spraying a little engine cleaner around the seal of the manifold.
If the engine at idle runs a bit higher rpm when you spray,  then the seal has a leak there.


The 2 vacuum hoses are gone in my 2.2
I made a vacuum system with a UP 28 Hella  Volvo pump.
No more leaking on my manifold and better brake power is the rewards of doing so.

The 1.6 can handle Euro 95 fuel very good.
No need to go for other fuels in there.

Herman




Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 19, 2014, 11:18:35 am
Yes, still using the original one. (carb.) No modification has been done to it as far as i know, other then replacing the gaskets and diaphragms.
Engine is standard, again, as far as i know, since i would believe that previous owners would have informed if there had been any modification.
Camshaft should be original also. As far as i know, no major modifications or other works has ever been done to the car, so should be original with regards to the engine.
One thing thou, probably nothing to do with these problems, but my temprature sensor is busted.
i don't have a vacuum gauge or oscilloscope, so it has not been checked with that.

(Please note I have updated this slightly 17th May)

O.K. thanks for updating me.  I have to say that it surprises me that you have an engine so original and standard as so many have been uprated, but that is just a comment not a criticism.

Now with regard to the backfire I have to say that since the timing looks just about spot on, and certainly not inaccurate enough to cause a problem, and with everything else just about standard, it leaves only one conclusion - it suggests the mixture must be weak, so that means either there is insufficient fuel or some additional air is getting in somewhere.  I'm assuming the basics have been checked and all the compressions are good and the valve clearances are correct?  If not then you need to do this since you could for instance have a valve not sealing on its seat and causing problems.  You mention changing jets in the carb. but if it is original and nothing has ever been altered then why would you have to do that?  It worked originally so it should still be correct.   No, the problem is something has changed from when it ran correctly, so you have to find out what has changed and repair it.

Oh one more thing I have just remembered I needed to ask.  What grade fuel are you running?  Any standard 2.2 Murena should be running the high octane fuel i.e. 97 or 98 octane.  The normal (in Europe) 95 octane is not good enough.  Whilst it may not be the cause of this backfire, you will get 'pinking' or pre-ignition with it and this can cause detonation, which can easily be mistaken for pre-ignition but is so damaging that it can melt holes in pistons and generally ruin an engine.  It is simply not worth the risk.  If you cannot get the high octane version where you are, then please make sure you use some Octane booster additive in your fuel.  I have run six 2.2 engines over the last thirty plus years since 1983 and not one has run cleanly on 95 octane, so although I have heard others say they have, I'm sorry but I don't trust that information.

I know that in one case of someone saying that he ran 95 and it was fine - when I was in that car I could hear the pinking and when I pointed it out, his comment was 'Oh is that what that is'!  So his comment about the car running fine on 95 was not true - it was just he did not realise it was not running correctly.  He was lucky he had not done any damage.  There is one other thing regarding this - if you drive the car really gently you may not experience the level of problem this causes, but I don't understand anyone buying a Murena and then driving it that 'gently'.  It is a sports car and a great one at that, and I certainly drive mine like a sports car which means quite hard and fast at times when conditions allow.  I still use full revs when required.  Age is not a reason to treat these any different - provided the car is maintained properly it is just as capable today as it was originally.

So back to the problem.  The reason I asked about whether you had used a vacuum gauge is that these can be quite a cheap and easy to use tool which can easily point to problems.  Another useful tool can be the Colourtune plug, although with the position of the plug holes and the engine in the Murena these are not easy to use in this particular application.  Whilst you said you have blocked all the vacuum connections off so none of those could be the cause, what about the inlet manifold?  Have you removed and checked the gaskets?  You could have a small air leak past a failed gasket between the manifold and head?  Or between the carb. and manifold.  Or the manifold itself could have a tiny hole or small porosity - it is after all an aluminium casting and these can sometimes be porous.  When was the last time it ran properly and what has been done since that time?  It is when things are done that changes occur and problems can start because of those changes or something else that happened inadvertently.

Have you had an exhaust emission CO test reading recently on the engine?  Since these engines use carburettors, the CO level should be around 2.0% - 2.5% at idle and the HC ppm level should be around 150-200.  Modern fuel injected engines might manage 0.5% CO or lower but you never want to try to get anywhere near that level with a Murena (or any carb. engine)  It is simply too weak and will lead to damage.  The European test level acceptable for this age and type of engine is actually 3.5% max CO and 1200 ppm HC. and the Murena can easily pass this test as 3.5% is quite rich and any figure greater than say 350-400 ppm HC would also point to a problem for this standard engine.  If any European country tries to impose a tighter level than these engines are capable of, then they are being stupid.

So if you have some CO/HC readings I would be interested to see the results.

The only other thing I can think of at this moment is that if the cut in the flywheel is in the wrong place it could mislead as to the the correct timing.  Now if the engine has never been apart so the flywheel is still original and fitted in the original place, it must be correct.  But you should be able to double check this anyway as I had to do once on a 2.2 in someone else's Murena.  Since this engine was originally in the Tagora 2.2 and is based on the Chrysler 180/2-litre which were all front engined cars, the original timing case marks are still on the engine.  They may not be so easy to get at but you can check them.  The lower timing case has the timing marks cast into it near the crankshaft pulley, and the pulley should have the small notch in it.  So if you line this notch up with the 10 degree mark on the timing case, you should then find the cut in the flywheel is lined up with the 10 degree mark on the clutch bell housing.  If it is not then there is a problem!

Roy

Hmm, have not checked the compression or valve clearance, not that much engine tools at my disposal, and the are VERY few and ridicloiusy prices shop that do this kind of work back here.

Shit, not that you mention it, I think it might actually have a can of 95 octan on it now, gone have to see if I can get some 98(although unleaded) on it pronto.

A vacuumgauge can easiely be purchased, so I should be able to get some things checked with it, any spesific points you want investigated?
Thought I might do as Oetker suggested to check for any leakes around the carb and inlet manifold.

I'm not sure when the last time it ran normally was, actually... I purchased it for bhavers here on the forum, but since he is a english sportscar fanatic, he couldn't be bothered to fix it, and sold it to me. Will se it I might be able to track down the owner befor him, and see what he remembers.

I do not have have a emission test on the car, and I do not know if any old ones from when the car was running have been kept either( and God know which workshops did it back then.

Will also checked the thigs you asked on the PM.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: roy4matra on May 22, 2014, 11:13:53 pm
Hmm, have not checked the compression or valve clearance, not that much engine tools at my disposal, and the are VERY few and ridicloiusy prices shop that do this kind of work back here.

Ah, in that case all the basics need to be checked first.  It's no good trying to cure a fault looking at secondary things when you don't even know if the basics are correct.  If for instance you have an inlet valve not sealing, then the compression will push those gasses back into the inlet and that could be the reason for the ignition in the manifold. The reason I asked if a vacuum gauge had been used is that this can show up a problem here very quickly.  If the manifold is 'air tight' so the only air/fuel is coming through the carb., when idling, the vacuum reading should be around 21" Hg but if the inlet is leaking then the vacuum reading will be lower and show that it is not air-tight.

Quote
Shit, not that you mention it, I think it might actually have a can of 95 octan on it now, gone have to see if I can get some 98(although unleaded) on it pronto.

A vacuumgauge can easiely be purchased, so I should be able to get some things checked with it, any spesific points you want investigated?
Thought I might do as Oetker suggested to check for any leakes around the carb and inlet manifold.

I'm not sure when the last time it ran normally was, actually... I purchased it for bhavers here on the forum, but since he is a english sportscar fanatic, he couldn't be bothered to fix it, and sold it to me. Will se it I might be able to track down the owner befor him, and see what he remembers.

I do not have have a emission test on the car, and I do not know if any old ones from when the car was running have been kept either( and God know which workshops did it back then.

Will also checked the thigs you asked on the PM.


Also, we know these camshafts can wear badly if good oil was not used and regular servicing has not been done.  Or if the cam was re-profiled but the rockers were not replaced or refurbished at the same time that will cause excessive wear and premature failure.  Another fault I have found with all the engines from other peoples cars that I have stripped is that some of the rocker arms are not even in the correct places - the exhaust ones have oil holes and the inlet arms do not, but I have found them on the wrong side which will also lead to premature wear.  So when you take the cam cover off to check the valve clearances (which must be correct before you test the compressions) you first need to examine the rocker arms to check they are in the right places and check the camshaft lobes.  In fact if you send me a photo of the cam so I can see what it looks like it would be useful.

Roy


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 15, 2016, 11:01:44 am
Been thinking about doing some more work on my now ageing Murena. Since last, the starter i now busted in some way, no reaction whatsoever when turning the key, so probably have to remove it. Remenber from last time I tried(and gave up) that I didn't seem to get the bolt loose.... Any ideas on how to access the bolts and be able to get enough momentum on them to turn? Seem to remember a long-arm was impossible to fit....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: GP on April 15, 2016, 11:57:05 am
Been thinking about doing some more work on my now ageing Murena. Since last, the starter i now busted in some way, no reaction whatsoever when turning the key, so probably have to remove it. Remenber from last time I tried(and gave up) that I didn't seem to get the bolt loose.... Any ideas on how to access the bolts and be able to get enough momentum on them to turn? Seem to remember a long-arm was impossible to fit....

A short ring spanner or socket with short flexible head arm then a piece of pipe over the end to apply some leverage on may work.


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: RazorbackNOR on April 15, 2016, 12:22:51 pm
Been thinking about doing some more work on my now ageing Murena. Since last, the starter i now busted in some way, no reaction whatsoever when turning the key, so probably have to remove it. Remenber from last time I tried(and gave up) that I didn't seem to get the bolt loose.... Any ideas on how to access the bolts and be able to get enough momentum on them to turn? Seem to remember a long-arm was impossible to fit....

A short ring spanner or socket with short flexible head arm then a piece of pipe over the end to apply some leverage on may work.

Seem to remember a was able to fit both a spanner and ratchet with pipe pointing down, but not able to turn it at all, due to all other parts around, and fitting it pointing upwards meant that not able to use a piece of pipe for leverage....


Title: Re: Worklog of my car
Post by: GP on April 16, 2016, 07:28:36 pm
Looking through my toolbox I seem to remember that I may have definitely, possibly, maybe? used a crescent curved ring spanner (plus a pipe) to undo the nut and bolt. ::)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FACOM-57-19x22-HALF-MOON-CRESCENT-CURVED-SPANNER-WRENCH-19-x-22mm-/131113344992?hash=item1e86f6dfe0:g:rcUAAOxy63FS93k3