Electric cars... Cont'd from the end of the Galvanising thread.

[Anders Dinsen]

Administrative info: I've attempted to tidy up by merging this thread with the messages about alternative powered cars that were originally from the galvanising thread regarding electric cars.

Are you guys aware that Matra is today actively engaged in electric cars?



http://www.matra-ms.com/vehicules-legers-electriques/gem.html

And the Matra Sports brand is today used on bicycles with electric motors. Personally, I would have preferred if they had reserved it for an electric line of sports cars...

- Anders

[krede]

Didnt they used to make weapons as well?... I prefer the bicycles then

[Lennart Sorth]

Didn't they used to make weapons as well?...

Oh yes indeed.
They had a very famous missile called MatraMagic (should ring a bell among us enthusiasts), and they also made the infamous Exocet.

They are still very much involved in aerospace through companies like "Aerospatiale Matra" and "Matra Défense".

In fact, the car-division was so tiny in comparison with the rest of the Groupe Lagardere that I doubt their contribution has ever been noticable in the grand scheme of things


Last year, The executive vice president of Matra MS send me this:

  "The M72 Project will not be introduced in the marketplace by Matra,
   considering we have withdrawn from the automobile sector, to
   concentrate on light electric vehicle in the future.                                         

   This does not mean it cannot be fun and sporty.                                                                     
   Wait and see... "

Personally I'd love to see the Zoom re-invented

/Lennart

[krede]

Lets see... (dreaming)
Small light Carbon fiber frame.....beautiful fiberglass bodywork (they can really just copy the murena )
And some high voltage Rock'nRoll under the bonnet.....
yahh I'd like one of those    

[Anders Dinsen]

Last year, The executive vice president of Matra MS send me this:

In this part of the world we have heard very little about their projects, and judging by their web site they are still working on it, but the message you got there certainly indicates that they are working on something and an electric sports car would certainly be the right thing to draw attention to their product line. But my guess is that they will targeting the niche of small cars which in france does not require a drivers licence - Ligiér has that as a cash cow in addition to their race car business. Matra might be trying to do a similar thing.

- Anders

[krede]

One interesting thing I am trying  to get confirmed is, that Electric cars supposedly are "tax free" in Denmark...
Now.. if that is the case, they suddenly could become much more attractive.

[macaroni]

Krede,
you make some very reasoned and articulate points. I've had too much Becks bier to comment on most of them now, but I will say that during the consumption of a bottle or 2 of my 2nd favourite lager (Grolsch being my favourite) I was watching a program called "Coast" which charts the history of the British, err...coast. This week they concentrated on the scottish Islands, Shetland and Orkney and they spoke to a guy on an island called Unst who has made a workable hydrogen-powered car! THe H is made by putting a current, produced Hydro-electrically, through water. No mention was made about how it is stored etc, but the car could do 45mph and looked ridiculous.

Still prefer my twin Dellorto fed, 99RON guzzling Murena though...

[krede]

Cheers mate
there are two different types of hydrogen cars.
The most obvious is one that just burns the hydrogen instead of petrol, while the other is the one we know as the fuel cell car.
The fuel cell car only uses the hydrogen as a "carrier" of the energy, and uses a reverse process of the physics experiment we all did in school where we made hydrogen by adding electricity to water and stuff (elektrolyse in danish)
Now, in the fuel cell car you use hydrogen, to get water and electricity. the latter is then used to power the electric motors(yes fuel cell cars are in fact electric cars) because you cant be bothered using a battery witch would be FAAAAR to obvious a solution.
Remember... this way, you will first have to spend a lot of energy to MAKE the hydrogen for the fuel cells in huge plants, and then use even more effort to transport and distribute it...... instead of simply using the power straight away right out of the socket in the wall.
So.. as I see it, its really just a case of huge investments and waste of resources,  for an end goal that is to get a product that the petrol companies can sell us instead of gas.
I have no doubt that if just a fraction of the effort was put into battery technology instead of being spend on fuel cells , the problems of battery weight capacity and recharge time could be easily overcome.   

[gizmo]

In America they drag race electric cars, with typical 1/4 mile times of around 10-11 seconds and terminal speeds of 120mph (190 kmph). Ok the range is limited but...

Check the link  http://www.nedra.com/

[Lennart Sorth]

certainly indicates that they are working on something and an electric sports car would certainly be the right thing to draw attention to their product line.

unfortunately I think they interpret "sport" as in smelly trainershoes and jogging lifestyle, more than as in motorsport.

However, if I really SHOULD own a bicycle, I'd consider their electrically assisted one

/Lennart

[Mark - formerly c5alive.co.uk]

However, if I really SHOULD own a bicycle, I'd consider their electrically assisted one

/Lennart
[/quote]

Or a Sinclair C5 - 100 times more fun than a bicycle and far better now thanks to battery technology than they were in 1985, and parts are still always available from me !!!

LOL

Mark

[Jacobosterlindh]

Se this thread, this bagh is converted but as a race-car.

http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php?topic=715.0

[Michael]

Hi folks,

some guy in austria had an intreasting idea:

http://www.matraforum.de/thread.php?threadid=2943&boardid=1&styleid=1&sid=f5701553e7a7eb793e74ef5156d19dd8

For the not-german-speakers. He build a hybridcar. Indeed the Bagh has two engines. An electrical in the front and the normal Simcaengine in the middle.
The choice to the Bagh is for my opinion very clever, bacause the front axle is from the Simca 1100, a front driven car.


Kind regards

Michael

[Spyros]

Hi,

I'm coming late in this interresting discussion.
I followed since some times these 2 Bagheera attempts to use electricity. This because it's obvious that fossil fuels will come to an end.

Since 2 or 3 years, more and more people  speak about Biodiesel, Colsa oil, ethanol...
I always found that rather stupid. (sorry  )
Why ? It's even more obvious that the quantities of fuel that can be produced that way is awfully limited and even the light current trend is already producing dramatic side effects.
Cereal price has increased so much, partially due to this sorry idea of producing fuel. So much that they become difficult to afford for people who need them just to survive. µ
Not later than yesterday, I had to watch a broadcast of people in Haiti who can't afford cereals anymore and cannot find anything else  to eat than mud cakes 
The most stupids ecologist promoting this idea of bio fuels have no brain.

For this reason, electric vehicule could be interresting if the electricity is produced by wind, sun ...
On a Bagheera, (I presume it would be as straighforward in a Murena ?) the front part of the chassis is made to support an engine. So, an electric one would be perfect not to alter too much the standard configuration.
Yes I know ... Batteries ...

According to me, there is another way.
This is biogaz.
Easy to produce. Although large quantities ?
Very easy to convert a standard Matra. (I've got the LPG equipment from a similarly engined Solara)
Nearly no modifications
Tank ? In the front , replacing the spare wheel.
There are even drawings of small experimental producing stations that you can find on the web.
And ... finaly, I might be able to find a destination of the grass I have to cut every week in my garden (summer ...) 

[krede]

I agree... Biofuel in its current state is a "stop gab"  at best.
A solution that will allow the current fleet of vehicles to be operated until a better solution is found.
Sure the Biofuels are smart..... using industrial and human waste to produce "diesel", but the energy and cost involved in this process is immense.

The "grown" fuel isn't much better, as nowhere near enough fuel could ever be produced.
And for the environment benefits.... Sure its CO2 neutral.. but keep in mind that the SINGLE most polluting industry (i Denmark at least) is.... yep farming!!

To me it all seems like some people high up are DESPERATE to find SOMETHING to sell us instead of petrol!.. be it Biodiesel, bio gas, hydrogen, it doesn't matter... just as long as we remain "hooked".

Fuel cells might have their uses in the future, but for small vehicles its completely overkill...
I remember several reviews of prototype fuel cell cars... where it was mentioned that "this cam could power your entire house... in fact your entire STREET".... GREAT!!!... but why do you need a car that can do that?...
The entire concept of fuelcell vehicles might have been a good idea 20 years ago... where any electric car was totally reliant upon acid/lead batteries..
No one foresaw the explosion in laptop and mobile phones.. and the batteries that followed!.

But NOW!!...

Imagine how things will be just 10-15 years from now, and tell me that you honestly dont believe that the few obstacles involved in producing an all battery
powered every day car could now be solved by then!

So...Biofuels are stop gaps.  fuelcell tech is a con... both are ways to simply keep us "hooked", instead of  plugging in tot he power grid that already exists!
Where the effort should be spend is in finding renewable sources of energy, like wind or solar power...