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Author Topic: Starter connections.. failure  (Read 21857 times)
Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2009, 11:21:59 pm »

It's a new starter from simons, but the old also had problems with the same symptoms....

I can hear the starter clicking when I turn the key. And when i disconnect the small "wire" is does nothing. So believe that wire is okay..

I have disconneted the big wire (the one from the batteri). Tried with a testlamp, but there is no power going to the end... Conclusion there no power in that cabel... 

There is also a "mediun" wire.. But can't measure anything on that... I think I took it off the same place as the "big" wire Undecided
 
I can almost not turn it, despite having jumpcables on the starter itself...  Sad

But where is the engine earth strap located..?? Thought the starter simply got the earth from the bolts...

Everything else works fine besides the starter...


The "clicking" sound is the selenoid being pulled when you turn the ignition key.

The "Big" wire and the "medium" wire should be connected to the same post on the selenoid. The medium wire comes from the alternator and charges the battery through the big wire. If the big wire is broken or the connector on the battery is severely coroded, you will not charge the battery or be able to draw power to the starter.

Placing jumper cables, negative on the engine block somewhere, and positive on the starter, should definitely crank the engine at normal revs. Is the starter engaging the cogs on the flywheel and trying to crank the engine?

If you have a spare battery that you know is good and are using it to jumper the starter, try placing it in front instead of the old battery and see what happens. As suggested, make sure the poles and connectors are clean. Also try measuring resistance (there shouldn't be any) from the negative battery pole to the engine block.
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2009, 10:26:19 am »

The "clicking" sound is the selenoid being pulled when you turn the ignition key.
Last night I was working on the headlights and had the engine started (twice) without any problems.

This morning I got into the car, turned the key and the starter engaged for a fraction of a second, then the "clicking" sound started and the engine did not crank. Angry

Thinking that, perhaps the flywheel had stopped at a spot that din't allow the bendix drive to engage, I put the car in fifth gear and pushed it ½m. No luck, only clicking sounds from the starter.

I was getting late for work, so I took the other car. But now the weekend is booked working on the starter. First I will make sure that the battery is putting out enough power after the work I did on the lights. But I am not too optimistic due to the way it failed. It did after all engage and try to turn the engine for that fraction of a second, before quitting. Sad
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Murena IRL
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2009, 02:41:56 pm »


I have the very same symptoms.

I bought a new battery as there was not enough charge in it to turn the starter motor. (However, original battery is currently in Sunbeam Alpine and turns that over no problem).  It would start after many attempts on turning the ignition to engage the starter motor but got the clicking more often than would turn over. I then ordered a new starter motor and fitted it. This someway sorted the problem but would occasionally still get the clicking again. However, the clicking has returned, car won't turn and looks like a need another starter motor.

I will send the one back I bought recently and currently getting original one reconditioned but I am still no wiser what is causing this.   
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2009, 05:30:04 pm »

A qualified guess is the relay connectors in the starter has become dirty, and it needs to be reconditioned or replaced.

/Anders
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2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2009, 09:34:24 pm »

First I will make sure that the battery is putting out enough power after the work I did on the lights.
After I got home from work I jumpered the car and it started right up. then I drove it to a birthday party in Sorø (60+ km) thinking that the battery just needed to charge. Alas, when it came time to go home the car would not start again. Same clicking. There is plenty of power to the lights while driving, and using jumpers on the battery poles starts it right up. So nothing wrong with the cables between battery and the starter.

After I got home I put a charger on the battery and it started charging, drawing 5 amps. So the battery was definitely not fully charged. I have checked the battery and there are no dry cells. Next I will borrow Jan's clamp-on amp meter and measure to see if it is charging. Jan tells me that there is no charging relay and that it regulates the charging from the alternator. So perhaps it needs work even though it gives plenty of power.
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2009, 09:49:01 pm »

I still think you have a bad starter. The solenoid on the side of it is activated by the ignition key and in turns connects the electric motor itself to the battery. It also engages the starter on the flywheel. The clicking you are hearing comes from the solenoid. If the electric motor sometimes does not start turn, it's most likely the contacts in the solenoid. Solution is reconditioning or replacing the starter - if it helps charging the battery, it's purely by accident. You could just as well try having a cup of coffee Smiley

/Anders
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
suffolkpete
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« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2009, 10:05:58 am »

Quote
If the electric motor sometimes does not start turn, it's most likely the contacts in the solenoid.
  Could be the battery in a low state of charge.  If the lights dim when you operate the starter, then it's the battery.  If you hear a click and the lights do not dim then, as Anders says, it's the solenoid because the motor isn't drawing any current.  You don't need a clamp-on ammeter to test the charging.  Put some electrical load on the system, such as turning on the headlights, and run the engine up to about 2000 rpm.  Measure the voltage directly across the battery terminals.  If it's about 14 to 14.4 volts, then your charging system is fine.  If there was a problem, then surely you'd notice a low reading on the dashboard voltmeter anyway.
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2009, 06:51:15 pm »

  Could be the battery in a low state of charge.  If the lights dim when you operate the starter, then it's the battery.  If you hear a click and the lights do not dim then, as Anders says, it's the solenoid because the motor isn't drawing any current.  You don't need a clamp-on ammeter to test the charging.  Put some electrical load on the system, such as turning on the headlights, and run the engine up to about 2000 rpm.  Measure the voltage directly across the battery terminals.  If it's about 14 to 14.4 volts, then your charging system is fine.  If there was a problem, then surely you'd notice a low reading on the dashboard voltmeter anyway.
Well, I had a battery charger hooked up over night. The charging current drops to 0 amps, but the voltage across the battery is only 13,2 V dropping to 12,5 V after the chargfer has been disconnected for some time. I started the car by jumpering the battery. After removing the jumpers I measure 14,7 V with the engine at idle. My conclusion from this is that the alternator is charging fine. 14,7 v is plenty of power. The way the battery behaves make me think that one of the cells has gone bad, causing it to deliver insuficient amps for the selenoid and starter.
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suffolkpete
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« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2009, 07:17:03 pm »

Quote
The way the battery behaves make me think that one of the cells has gone bad, causing it to deliver insuficient amps for the selenoid and starter.
I would tend to agree with that.  Check the battery either by substituting another, or by going to a specialist and having a heavy discharge test done.  The fact that you can start the car with jump leads would rule out the starter motor or the connections.
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2009, 07:17:46 pm »

The way the battery behaves make me think that one of the cells has gone bad, causing it to deliver insuficient amps for the selenoid and starter.
I installed a new battery the other day. It turned out that I had to find one with reverse pole positions, because of the way the cabeling is made. Otherwise I would have had to modify the battery cables.

Well the new battery has done the trick. The car now starts quickly and willingly.  Cheesy
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krede
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« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2009, 07:44:05 pm »

And..

Quote
Whats the condition of the battery ??... sounds like its discharged.

There is nothing we elder men likes more than being able to say... "I told you so" Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2009, 09:11:58 am »

And..

Quote
Whats the condition of the battery ??... sounds like its discharged.

There is nothing we elder men likes more than being able to say... "I told you so" Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
I would agree, if it wasn't for the fact that it was "flew" you told so, in response to his post at the start of this thread.  Grin Grin Grin
So technically speaking you didn't tell me so. Wink
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Matranaut par excellence Cool
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« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2009, 09:27:36 am »

Aaaaaand my , my memory isnt what it used to be Wink... but you got your car running.. thats what matter Cheesy
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