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Author Topic: Why did they not galvanize these parts?  (Read 8743 times)
Jon Weywadt
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« on: April 24, 2009, 09:45:30 pm »

With as much trouble as Matra went through to galvanize the chassis, one wonders why they skimped on some of the exposed parts.

Last weekend Jan and I took of the damaged front from my 2.2. The previous owner had just attached it with red strips after a halfa#%ed job of fiberglass repair. I fixed the front with new fiberglass mats and epoxy over the cracks and holes that were left.

But that was not what got me wondering. Looking at the radiator and the plates that surround its sides and bottom, I found that they had corroded severely. (photos below) Jan had told me they would be and made stainless steel replacements that we polished, cut to fit and drilled for mounting holes. Under the hood opposite the fuse box there is also a plate that corrodes, it too was replaced with stainless steel. That one takes some fitting due to the bulge of the heater blower protruding from the firewall. (see photo)

Everything was mounted with pop riviets or stainless steel screws (that were polished of course Cool). If we continue on this route, there won't be many places that can rust on our Murenas.

As you may notice, while we were at it the bar for the frog-eye lights was wire brushed and coated with Hammerite. The baerings for the bar wer cleaned with Simply Green in a ultrasound bath and relubricated with silicon grease. The horns were wire brushed and coated with Hammerite too. Not shown, the brackets that hold the front on each side of the fenders, were left in Phosphoric acid over night and then coated with Hammerite and baked in an oven till dry, as were the stays that support the fenderwell and attach to the frame. The trunk latch and locking mechanism, got the Phosphoric acid treatment too, and will be coated this weekend, as we were running out of time.

This is more fun than a guy should be allowed to have Grin
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roy4matra
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2009, 10:38:31 pm »

With as much trouble as Matra went through to galvanize the chassis, one wonders why they skimped on some of the exposed parts.

Quite simple - cost.  It was relatively simple to put a complete chassis into the hot zinc to galvanise the whole structure once they had decided to use that method of protection, but to do all the ancillary parts would have been a lot more trouble and expense.  They were not worried about long term corrosion of these other bits, as they can be replaced, knowing the main frame was at least sound.

Roy
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 12:05:49 am by roy4matra » Logged

murramor
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2009, 12:24:18 am »

Congratulations!  The pictures look really nice and give me some inspiration to do similar work on mine.  I am in the process of cleaning up in the same area.  Did you replace the panel underneath with stainless - the one in the first picture?  It looks difficult to fabricate because of the strengthening ribs that have been stamped into it.
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Ron Murrell
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2009, 05:56:14 am »

You are profiting from working with the Jan, the perfectionist Smiley It looks really good!
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2009, 08:06:46 am »

You are profiting from working with the Jan, the perfectionist Smiley It looks really good!
Jan and I have been friends for more than fourty years and one reason we get along so well is that we are both perfectionists.  Wink We inspire eachother with ideas and our different areas of expertice and skils. We also both live by "don't throw that thing away, you never know when it may come in handy"  Grin

I am going to visit him today for some more perfectionist work. I think it will end up as a "So ein ding......"  Shocked More on that later.

Well, got back earlier from Jan. He and I made some signs with a gadget that he had borrowed from work. You print on a plastic tape in a process that perforates the tape with hundreds of microscopic holes. If you then tape this print onto a metal sign, lay it on a conducting surface that is hooked to a transformer, then, with the other lead from the transformer connected to a handle with a graphite block attached and covered with a sponge, dip the sponge in a liquid and touch it to the tape. Whatever you print is then etched into the sign. See the photo below, showing the polished stainless steel sign with the car model and the name of the guy who designed it, Antonis Volanis. These are now mounted in the notch on each of our door sils. (both sides)  Cool

We have also made a sign to go on the rack and pinion housing. (blurredphoto , I'll take another one tomorrow)

It is too much fun. But some of it more practical. Like taking off the front again to mount the cover under the hood locking mechanism. It had been steeped in phosphoric acid and painted with Hammerite. While I had the front off I took a photo of the left bracket and stay, that holds the fender and front. It has received the same treatment as the cover.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 03:54:58 pm by Jon Weywadt » Logged

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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2009, 03:41:18 pm »

Did you replace the panel underneath with stainless - the one in the first picture?  It looks difficult to fabricate because of the strengthening ribs that have been stamped into it.
Yes, it is stainless steel. But don't worry about making strengthening ribs. A 1mm thick stainless steel plate is plenty strong on its own with the bend down the middle, from side to side. On mine the front of the bracket rests up on the underside of the fiberglass front. The original rubber seal that was on that edge on the old plate was transferred to the new plate. (after the photo was taken)
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RazorbackNOR
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2009, 11:24:02 pm »

Pardon me for not knowing.... But why put the parts in phosphoric acid....?
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1983 Matra Murena 2.2 Platine
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Oetker
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2009, 07:59:23 am »


Posphor acid is used to derust.
It turns rust in to magnetiet (Fe3o4) and close in deeper rust.
See the black spots in the pic after treatment.

Nice advantage of the stuff is that it also etch galvanised material so paint wil have a better grip on it.
After the treatment you clean with water and let it dry.
Then you put primer on, and you have a good anti rust protection.

You can also use Fertan, wich is more expencive, and has some primer and dopes mixed in it.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 08:01:28 am by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
RazorbackNOR
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2009, 11:03:30 am »

Since it is such a wondercure for rust, what would happen if it was used for electrolyscleaning....?
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2010 Mazda 3 1,6  Diesel Gunmetal Blue
1983 Matra Murena 2.2 Platine
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Oetker
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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2009, 11:27:37 am »

I wouldn't mix this types of derusting.
Electrolyse wil loosen the magnetiet, so it will be of no use to do it.
Electrolyse is fine for small things (personally I use the posphor acid for small things to), but for the car itself it is not practical.
You need a swimming pool and lots of power Grin
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Oskar
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2009, 06:06:18 pm »

where can I get this stuff?  Smiley
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Oetker
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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2009, 07:25:40 pm »

You can find it here.
http://www.homecareessentials.co.uk/acatalog/Rust_Remover.html
If you gonna use it, do it as I describe.
Get of most rust the usual way first.
Make the object wet and put it on.
Leave it for 1-2 days to do its work.
Wash it of with a spons and plenty water.
Let it dry, and I mean realy dry.
Put on primer and after that is dry, put on paint of choice.

Most oldtimerfreaks over here use this, and is proven to be very good.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FERTAN-ROSTUMWANDLER-ROSTKONVERTER-ROSTSCHUTZ-1-LITER_W0QQitemZ150302251729QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpezielle_Werkzeuge?hash=item150302251729&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Its the same stuff with some dopes.
Works about the same, but has a extra protective layer in one go.
This is one of the better ways to protect youre car, espacially if it is galvanised.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 07:28:43 pm by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2009, 07:11:55 pm »

Jan and I continue to have fun replacing old rusty metal parts. Cheesy This weekend I visited Jan and worked on a new frame for the fusebox. Jan had cut it out and made the bends along the cutout for the fusebox. I finished it by bending the flanges and drilling the mounting holes. You have to have the old frame from your paricular car to measure from, in order to make sure the holes fit for mounting.

Removing the old frame can be a bit tricky, because the pop rivet closest to the fender and firewall cannot easily be drilled out. I suspect that Talbot mounted the fusebox frame to the fiberglass before this was mounted on the car. There simply is no way they could get a riveting tool down there and get a right angle on the rivet. For the same reason it is difficult to drill out. An option is a Dremel hobby tool with a grinder which you can use to file the top off the rivet.

When mounting the new frame, there also is no room to get a screw installed down there. But since the new stainless frame is much stiffer, I chose to place a screw in the middle and the original top positions. Plenty strong. The photos show the old and new frames side by side and the new one mounted in the car. The mounted one is in Jans car and the one in my car looks identical.

Oh, and of course the job would not be up to our perfectionist standards without a stainless steel lid on the fusebox itself.  Grin Grin Grin Grin

Mounting the stainless frame we chose self tapping screws. The mounting holes for the fusebox were fittet with 5mm pop nuts and fastned with unbraco machine screws. Polishing the stainless steel can be dangerous. I was wearing leather work gloves and had a firm grip on the frame. Still, twice I got the polishing wheel too close to one of the edges and the frame got yanked out of my hands. Without the gloves I would have been cut.  Angry
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 01:36:18 pm by Jon Weywadt » Logged

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Bart_Maztra
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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2009, 09:01:02 pm »

Looking good!
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Murena IRL
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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2009, 09:18:39 pm »


Are u able to make anymore? I am sure some of us here would be interested.

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