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Author Topic: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION  (Read 138507 times)
roy4matra
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« Reply #315 on: May 19, 2020, 08:14:26 am »

LOL any hair would be good these days!
I am trying to find somewhere to reproduce the vin plates.
Can anyone advise me of the wording?
Also what do the numbers on the bottom right signify? was thinking year and build possibly? (80/4164)
(Cant see anyone trying to clone it)


Sorry haven't been in here for a week now owing to other matters, but there is a company in France that can reproduce Matra chassis plates - at least for the Murena and Espace Series 1 (1984-1991) - and maybe other models?  They are spot-on copies of the original except for the specific numbers which are engraved in with a machine rather than stamped in.

I had a new one for my Espace Quadra as those early Espace plates are prone to rot around the RH fixing where there is an interaction between the steel and alloy.  The new plate was good.  I'm not sure if they do a Bagheera plate but anyone requiring one could easily ask them.

I'll have to look up their details again as it was a while ago, but you'll see I posted an answer to the Replica ID chassis plates topic in the Espace section when Terry in the U.S.A. needed a new plate for his Espace.


Correction to this paragraph:
As for the 80/4164 code on the Murena plate, I originally believed that was the code that was used to obtain the correct parts where there has been a change point.  However, the item is a P.V.A. number, except  I don't know what these letters stand for.  Does anyone who speaks French know what they might be?  Just a thought, it could be a vehicle type approval number - Peugeot Vehicle Approval maybe, although since Peugeot weren't involved when the Bagheera was made and I believe that had the P.V.A. number too, I doubt the 'P' stands for Peugeot.  If these were the parts change numbers, the 80/4164 should have indicated the first model (1980) and the change point came after 4,164 vehicles.  My Murena which was a 1982 model year car, has 81/4039 on it, and I have seen that on others, which suggests the second change point would have been another 4039 chassis later.  But that would put it into the 1983 year build which was from C.8161 onwards.  So I'm fairly convinced now it has something to do with a type approval number.

So all '81 and '82 Murena model years should have one of those two numbers.  1983 probably have no number as they made no further changes. (supposedly!)  So when you see a part in the original microfiche that could be one of two or three, depending on whether it is before or after a change point, this would be the number the parts department would have needed.

As for the kg numbers near the bottom of your plate, the first (1260kg) is the max. gross vehicle weight allowed with passengers, fuel, boot full etc.  The next figure (1910kg) is the max. gross train weight when a trailer is attached, so the trailer could be up to 650kg).  The bottom two figures are the max. front (560kg) and rear (900kg) axle loadings allowed.

Roy
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 03:11:41 pm by roy4matra » Logged

roy4matra
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« Reply #316 on: May 19, 2020, 08:52:40 am »

I've never come across a two-wire connection to the regulator.

Then you haven't seen a 2.2 with an original Paris-Rhone alternator Peter! Smiley

These all has two wires to the voltage regulator, and one was a positive wire whilst the other came from the warning light.  The wire from the warning light (red with a green marker) was the normal alternator type connection, initially activating the alternator and then taking the output back to balance the warning light voltage both sides so it went out.  The second wire with a smaller connection was the ignition wire (grey with a red marker) which the Paris-Rhone needed for some reason I never figured out.  The two connections were in a single black plastic plug that fitted the alternator voltage regulator.  No other alternator I've ever come across ever needed an ignition feed but these did otherwise they wouldn't work.

But this is only on the 2.2 model.  The 1.6 models only had the normal arrangement with just one wire from the warning light (red wire, green marker).  Both models, on the early versions at least, also had a red wire with yellow marker on the alternator (circuit '8'), but this was simply a connection up to the diagnostic socket pin 12, so that the alternator could be checked remotely.  Check my diagrams!


As for testing, Peter is quite correct, simply touch the warning light wire at the alternator end to earth and if the warning light comes on, the bulb and circuit are fine, so the fault is probably the voltage regulator but definitely with the alternator somewhere.

Roy
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roy4matra
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« Reply #317 on: May 19, 2020, 09:03:16 am »

The only wire I could find that was connected went to the starter! The resistor behind the dash is still there and it works as I measured the resistance across it and it was 84.2 and I distinctly remember that the light has been working. I just checked out connection block under the bonnet and found this! so I am hoping that it is causing (or contributing) to the failure...

No it is not Terry.  Since you have a different engine to the normal 1.6 Murena, my wiring diagram that you have does not have any engine loom as I have no idea what modifications have been done to it by fitting the Peugeot engine.

However, if you check at the front of the diagram you will see that the alternator warning light wire red with green marker (circuit '9') goes through the grey plug CC6 on the LH side of the car.  That yellow plug is CC2 on the RH side of the car, and the things that pass through it are the signal (5) and large red main feed (3C) to the H.R.W. relay which is the common one that rots!  So that rotted green mess will only prevent your H.R.W. working.  The others are the electronic dipstick wires (97 B & C), and the fuel sender wires (92 and 93).

Roy
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 09:08:53 am by roy4matra » Logged

TELBOY
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« Reply #318 on: May 19, 2020, 10:35:00 am »

Thanks Roy, I use your digram upto the engine bay, but beyond that not a lot makes sense to me as the wires in the bay are a bit "hit and miss" I knew the yellow connector should be for the fuel sender and H/R/W but as its a mess who knew where it went. The H/R/W now works as does the fuel sender and fuel light. I was also aware that the grey connector contained the alternator circuit and these were also very bad so I thought I would replace both. When tracing a fault I always begin where the fault manifests itself and work backwards so bulb, dash circuit, connectors and alternator.
 I am not too sure the battery guage is functional so I am making a centre consul which will contain a switch for the fuel pump, fan overide switch, voltmeter (small accurate digital one) and a usb charger for phones (got to keep up with the times.) and associated warning lights. I am making it so it can easily be removed and it will have a main feed from the ignition going to a small fusebox built into the consul for the associated switches and warning lights. The idea of the fuse box is so I will only need one power take off from the ignition swith so the consul can just be llifted out by disconnecting the one power wire. I have already completed the first consul but it didnt look in keeping with Matra. It looked too modern so not part of the design so I am now making mark 11. I would appreciate your input and ideas into the electrics.
 On a happier note I noticed that Matra Magic had a gearlever surround in black for my "Belgium" gear set up so have one on order. The marks indicating gear poistions obviously dont correspond to my gear positions but I cant have everything.
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TELBOY
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« Reply #319 on: May 19, 2020, 07:19:02 pm »

Mark 11 went the same way as mark 1 ! Mark 3 is a third finished but it is at this stage that the first two ended in the bin but I am happy with how this one looks............so far! whether I will still be happy once I have made the rest of it and fitted the guages / switches and fuse box remains to be seen.
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TELBOY
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« Reply #320 on: May 27, 2020, 08:31:44 pm »

Still not finished as I have been working last 7 days straight Sad but I hope you can get the picture.
I still have to fit the usb charger, and fuel pump warning light and to the left of the switches will sit the emergency light lift handle.
Both centre sections can be lifted out to allow, at the front, document storage. and at the back the fuse box.
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TELBOY
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« Reply #321 on: June 16, 2020, 06:44:04 pm »

Progress is painfully slow! but at least its progress!
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murramor
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« Reply #322 on: June 19, 2020, 02:02:30 am »

Looking very good!
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Ron Murrell
Sydney, Australia
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #323 on: June 20, 2020, 08:03:18 am »

Progress is painfully slow! but at least its progress!

I am very impressed. The Murena interior is cosy, clean, and practical. I like the style you're adding!
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
TELBOY
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« Reply #324 on: June 22, 2020, 06:06:20 pm »

Thanks Anders.............Mark V consul, will stick with this one.
Moved the switches so I can reach them (always helps!)
Just need to find the size of the steering wheel bolt! anyone got any ideas?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 06:15:55 pm by TELBOY » Logged
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #325 on: June 22, 2020, 08:02:27 pm »

Mark V consul, will stick with this one.

Mark V - sounds impressive. The console looks great too Smiley
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
TELBOY
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Posts: 391



« Reply #326 on: June 22, 2020, 09:30:30 pm »

Will blame tbat one on auto spell....not
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TELBOY
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« Reply #327 on: June 25, 2020, 06:42:58 pm »

As I have to wait 3 weeks for my new carb I thought I would look at various nagging little things. One being a sticky drivers door unlock mechanism. When removing I discovered that the bolt at the bottom of the window runner which I thought was a support is in fact an adjuster to align the window runner. I wonder if all those problems with my window being stiff in the runner could have easily been cured by a slight adjustment!
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TELBOY
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« Reply #328 on: July 04, 2020, 07:03:33 pm »

Not too sure anyone can help but def worth a go!
As you may all know EOW runs a pug 1.9 with a naffed carb! I have sourced a new carb (solex 32/34 Z1). to replace the webber that has lots of bits missing!
However the Solex comes with pieces That I dont recognise and there is no mention of in the manuals i have.
The carb came with a box containing a black cylinder, two screws a small length of tube and an adjuster screw.
The adjuster screw I have ascertained goes into the  "throttle valve opening device" and am assuming it connects to the carb using the tube to the front vacuum take off.
The black cylinder looks like it should be mounted at the rear of the carb but I havnt got a clue what it should do. if i stick a tube on it and blow or suck it doesnt do anything!!!!! and cant because it has only the one opening for a tube.
Has anyone got any ideas what it is or should do?
I realise that the carb is "generic" so it may bnot have a use for my engine!
Any help appreciated.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 07:08:08 pm by TELBOY » Logged
TELBOY
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« Reply #329 on: July 08, 2020, 02:17:21 pm »

I wired up the carb cut off and the breather solenoid and offered the carb up to the manifold! It didnt fit!! It was fouling on the intake manifold. I then looked closely and noted that the throttle spindle mechanism had been bolted on upside down at the factory.............................muppets!!!!. So I had to remove this and rotate 180 degrees.
It was also evident that the old carb had a cable adjuster welded onto it to hold the cable.
I have ordered new fuel pipes to replace the rubber ones and a throttle cable for a Renault Clio as its the cheapest one I could find that has the correct adjuster (they dont come seperately)
I will have to use a small dremil to open this to allow it to be fitted
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 02:21:53 pm by TELBOY » Logged
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