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Author Topic: Alfa Power (Engine conversion)  (Read 24956 times)
uberprutser
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« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2011, 04:15:39 pm »

@michaltalbot. Each his own I guess. But don't get me started on CO2 emissions or air borne solid particles. Those are just scams from our goverments to raise more taxes.
At this point I'm not interested in a fast cam, thanks for the offer. But you however might be interested in my spare 2.2 Tagora GLS engine. You will probably need it in time Smiley

@Murramor. Is the gearbox on the left side? On what side are the intake and exhaust manifolts? 88Kw would be enough for my 1.6. But the problem with most modern engines in probably the immobilizer. So you'll end up buying an expensive aftermarket ECU.

@Jon. Thanks for pointing that out. I had a good look at the pictures and they gave me some ideas. I even sent a PM  to the topic starter hopefully he'll respond to my questions.



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michaltalbot
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« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2011, 09:03:34 pm »

@michaltalbot. Each his own I guess. But don't get me started on CO2 emissions or air borne solid particles. Those are just scams from our goverments to raise more taxes.

 Wink  Cheesy  think that we are at one in this case  Cool where are You from? I live in Czech Republic.
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uberprutser
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« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2011, 01:08:48 pm »

I drive my Matra in the low counties.
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krede
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« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2011, 08:15:13 am »

Quote
Let me ask you one rhetorical question; What would you do when we run out of oil and the only way to drive your Murena would be to convert it to a ethyl or electric?
Would you still want to enjoy you car or would you just stare at it in the driveway?

LPG should work fine in such an old engine, and with the possibilities in programmable ECU's , I think it could be made to run very well .

Regarding your choice of engine, I'm with Michal as far as I can't see why you bother with the Alfa unit. It will be just as expensive to maintain as a 2.2 Murena.
But since you like the engeneering challenge I'd say... how about a VR6, or just for the hell of it.. a Rover V8? Smiley
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 08:17:49 am by krede » Logged
Oskar
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« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2011, 08:45:43 am »

politechnic N9TEA 400++  Cool
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peugeot 205 gti
murena 1.6
roy4matra
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« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2011, 09:39:50 am »

Regarding your choice of engine, I'm with Michal as far as I can't see why you bother with the Alfa unit. It will be just as expensive to maintain as a 2.2 Murena.
But since you like the engeneering challenge I'd say... how about a VR6, or just for the hell of it.. a Rover V8? Smiley

I'm of the same mind - I don't like engine swaps by individuals, particularly since they rarely are correct from an engineering point of view - most really only consider if they fit physically.  However, if you really want to change to something else the VR6 has to be the one.  It is as small as a 'four' but is is a 'six' and has the inlet and exhaust on the correct sides to match the original powertrain; so it should be relatively easy to install, have more power and torque, be smooth like only 'sixes' can, and have room around it for maintenance...

Roy
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RazorbackNOR
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« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2011, 10:16:33 am »

and have room around it for maintenance...

Roy

Roy, you got to be joking.... Cheesy

Being just to working on a Opel Ascona/Vauxhall Cavalier MKI 1,3 Shocked, the Murena enginebay can be considered anything less then a tight fit as is...
As someone here once said, working on the Murena will give you pain in muscels you didn't even know you had.  Grin
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 10:19:47 am by RazorbackNOR » Logged

2010 Mazda 3 1,6  Diesel Gunmetal Blue
1983 Matra Murena 2.2 Platine
50cc Pocketbike
IPSC shooter
uberprutser
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« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2011, 12:30:39 pm »

VR6 would be nice but this Alfa lump is more then enough for my limited driving skills. But in time, who knows.
I don't think you'll end up with more space to work in with any new engine. Unless you consider cutting of the boot.



(Sorry Michaltalbot, I can't be held responsible for any hart attacks you might suffer when seeing this)

More pics here: http://s1139.photobucket.com/albums/n544/wobbe98/whpracing/?start=all
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2011, 12:33:17 pm »

and have room around it for maintenance...

Roy

Roy, you got to be joking.... Cheesy

Being just to working on a Opel Ascona/Vauxhall Cavalier MKI 1,3 Shocked, the Murena enginebay can be considered anything less then a tight fit as is...
As someone here once said, working on the Murena will give you pain in muscels you didn't even know you had.  Grin

I have only seen one Alpha V6 in a Murena and I don't recall if it provided more space for maintenance access, than the original 2.2. My experience is that in order to do work on the 2.2, you empty the boot, climb in, switch to your universal elbow and wrist joints  Wink and get at it. Cheesy

If your joints are not of the universal type  Wink you sometimes have to make alternative solutions, such as the alternator belt tightening gadget shown in my post here: http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1389.0.html
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Matranaut par excellence Cool
Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2011, 12:38:32 pm »

----
(Sorry Michaltalbot, I can't be held responsible for any hart attacks you might suffer when seeing this)
----
I don't know about Michael, but I drooled when seeing the slide show on the site you refer. That is sweet. Definitely not purist, but easy is that to work on. Grin
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Matranaut par excellence Cool
michaltalbot
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« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2011, 01:11:03 pm »

I'm not going to have a heart attack, this is technically on really different level than just installing an old engine. As I wrote somewhere else - "So at least, I preffer to cutting out the boot and using the 2,2 Turbo with direct exhaust, good placed intercooler and clean made intake  Wink "

And that's just what these guys made with the yellow Murena - btw. I remember this Murena from YouTube - it was a blue smoking 1,6  Cheesy Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYAXl3rA8qc
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 01:15:58 pm by michaltalbot » Logged

murramor
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« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2011, 11:33:09 am »


@Murramor. Is the gearbox on the left side? On what side are the intake and exhaust manifolts? 88Kw would be enough for my 1.6. But the problem with most modern engines in probably the immobilizer. So you'll end up buying an expensive aftermarket ECU.


If one moved the Pug 207engine to the rear of a Murena so it would still have one reverse gear and 5 forward, it would have the exhaust at the front next to the fuel tank and the inlet at the rear next to the boot.  The gearbox would be on your left as you stand at the rear of the car and look forward.

regards
Ron Murrell
Sydney, Australia
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Ron Murrell
Sydney, Australia
roy4matra
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« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2011, 07:22:30 pm »

and have room around it for maintenance...

Roy

Roy, you got to be joking.... Cheesy

No I'm not.  After working in the trade for 40 years the Murena engine bay is, especially for a mid-engined car, roomy for working on.  You want to try working on many of the other modern cars.

Quote
As someone here once said, working on the Murena will give you pain in muscels you didn't even know you had.  Grin

You try working on an old pre-war car or some of the sixties models with wide flowing wings and a narrow engine bonnet.  You need to learn over but you mustn't damage the wings in any way, and even with wing covers that is easily done.  It's a back killer!  A Murena by comparison is easy.

As for the VR6 powertrain - I have measured one up and seen one out on a trolley, and there is little difference to a 2.2 standard setup.  That is why it is the obvious choice.  That 'six' really is as small as our 'four'.  Since it is also fuel injected, there is no carburettor to work on...

As I said I'm not in favour of swaps but space-wise this is almost ideal as both an upgrade to more power and smoothness yet without being a crammed in fit like the Alfa V6.

Roy
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lewisman
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Posts: 423


« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2011, 01:57:36 am »

As all of my other cars are Alfas I would quite like an Alfa V6 in my murena but unless I write off my V6 gtv (no  Cry ) this is very unlikely to happen.  Our gtv twinspark produces 155 bhp from 2 litres but I would not go to the bother of swapping the 142 murena engine for 13 bhp (and the Alfa lump is heavy!)
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matramurena
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« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2011, 02:11:49 pm »

After four years this is how far I am with my conversion..



The end is in sight now...
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1983 Matra Murena V6 (AR engine)
2003 Matra Avantime 2.0T Expression
2003 Matra Avantime V6 Privilege
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