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Author Topic: EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION  (Read 138110 times)
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #330 on: July 09, 2020, 06:09:47 am »

It looks like a more-than-expected complicated venture. Good luck! You mentioned the carb is "generic" - did you find any information on jets, venturis etc? I googled and found this that lists a number of different configurations for different Citroen engines - I think yours may be among them:

http://www.bxclub.cz/files/pdf/carb2.pdf

/Anders
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 06:14:04 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
TELBOY
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« Reply #331 on: July 09, 2020, 09:53:13 am »

Morning Anders, thanks for the info. My "Pug 405 manual" didnt list the jet sizes. I specified it was for a 405 1.9 with an XU9 2C D2A which is the same as a Citreon BX 1.9 TRS, although that uses a 34/34 carb. I havnt checked the jets and in all honesty I am not going to. I dont like messing with carbs. To me they remain a magical mystery and I dont delve in to the mystical arts!.
It is a little more problematic than just bolting it on but I had thought that the old carb had an adjusted welded on to save a few quid. I keep telling myself that when it had its conversion back in the very early 90's (91 I THINK) the interweb was relatively new and it was a lot harder to source parts or find "work arounds" I just spend a couple or hrs on the computer searching for what I need or think could work. Keeps me busy.
PS you dont happen to know the steering wheel nut size do you? When I ordered my wheel and boss I forgot the nut!!
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roy4matra
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« Reply #332 on: July 10, 2020, 08:03:59 pm »

Not too sure anyone can help but def worth a go!
As you may all know EOW runs a pug 1.9 with a naffed carb! I have sourced a new carb (solex 32/34 Z1). to replace the webber that has lots of bits missing!
...
Any help appreciated.

I'm sorry you probably have an unsuitable carburettor for your 1.9 litre engine.

The Solex 32/34 Z1 is for the smaller capacity engines such as the 1.4 and 1.6 litre and has smaller primary and secondary venturis which will restrict the 1.9 litre engine.  The correct carburettor for a 1.9 litre engine would be the Solex 34/34 Z1 or Z2.  The 34/34 Z1 has 26 primary and 27 secondary venturis which will be able to satisfy the air demand of the larger engine.

The smaller Solex 32/34 Z1 will also have unsuitable jetting and emulsion tubes, and all would need changing, but since I suspect the venturis are cast in, and cannot be changed, changing the jetting would be a waste of time and it means the carbs. are unsuitable.

Roy
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TELBOY
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« Reply #333 on: July 10, 2020, 10:44:56 pm »

That is not what I wanted to hear Roy!!!! Sad
As you know I couldnt find a webber 32 /34 DRTC anywhere. This is what was fitted, so went for a solex equivalent which was also one of the carbs listed in my PUG 405 manual When I ordered it I did specify it was for a 405 1.9 XU92C engine but there are no casting marks on the carb so am assuming it is a 32/34 z1. I have just measured both barrels and they are both 34 so the plot thickens. I may have to get a different carb then, but will see what it runs like once (if) I ever get it running.
On a similar vane when I removed the 32/34 DRTC the manifold had a heat resister block and then a restrictor plate!!!!! Was seriously thinking of not fitting this back on, what do you think?
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roy4matra
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« Reply #334 on: July 10, 2020, 11:24:04 pm »

That is not what I wanted to hear Roy!!!! Sad
As you know I couldnt find a webber 32 /34 DRTC anywhere. This is what was fitted, so went for a solex equivalent which was also one of the carbs listed in my PUG 405 manual When I ordered it I did specify it was for a 405 1.9 XU92C engine but there are no casting marks on the carb so am assuming it is a 32/34 z1. I have just measured both barrels and they are both 34 so the plot thickens. I may have to get a different carb then, but will see what it runs like once (if) I ever get it running.
On a similar vane when I removed the 32/34 DRTC the manifold had a heat resister block and then a restrictor plate!!!!! Was seriously thinking of not fitting this back on, what do you think?

First you can't measure the barrels and expect that to denote the specification in any way.  The venturi size is at the narrowest point down inside the carb, and if the venturis are cast in, then you will usually find the size cast on the outside of the carburettor casing, if you look carefully.  But even if the venturis are a particularr size, the jetting can vary to suit different engine specs. which is why all new carbs have a small tag attached to one of the casing screws with a coding which tells you exactly what the specification (all the venturis, jets, emulsion tubes, floats etc.) is for that particular version of the carb.  In the pages from the workshop manual I sent you, you will see that the Solex 32/34 comes in about 4 or 5 different specs. depending on whether it was fitted to a 1.4 or 1.6 and whether it had an auto box, or air con. etc.  There is never just one specification for a particular carburettor.

The figures you need first are the venturi sizes.  If these are correct then the exact jetting is the next things to check.

If you had checked my website and the FAQ about Solex carbs. for the Murena 2.2 you would have seen how the correct one was the 34 CICF 141 and that some people were sold a 34 CICF 161 which is not set up for a Murena and although it might look the same, was for a particular Citroen and does not work correctly on the Murena.  The specification is all wrong.  This is the same with any car/engine/carburettor.  You need the correct one specified for it.  In your case, for a Citroen/Peugeot 1.9 engine there will be numerous Solex and Webers that were fitted to cover different versions, whether manual or auto and with or without air con. and even the date when produced is important as they had to meet varying emission levels.  They were usually Solex 34/34 or Weber 34/34 on a 1.9 litre engine, and if the one you found fitted to your Murena when you first got it was a Weber 32/34 DRTC maybe even that was an incorrectly fitted one anyway.

Does or did that 32/34 Weber have the code tag?  What is the new Solex code tag?  These are the things you have to go by, when investigating fitting a carburettor, especially when it is to something not originally designed with either this engine or carb.

Roy
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 11:26:48 pm by roy4matra » Logged

TELBOY
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« Reply #335 on: July 11, 2020, 02:56:19 pm »

RELAX, BREATHE and be HAPPY....

What a relief. Solex obviously knew what I wanted when I said 405 1.9.
This took a vast amount of searching, following links and generally getting confused on the interweb.
Found three numbers hidden behind the choke mechanism (611) which identify it as a 34 / 34 carb (doesnt specitfy Z1 or Z2. Believe it or not I eventually found that on a Volvo website!!!) The order number on the invoice is not an order number as it says but a model number (9422212900) Identifying it as (suitable) for  405 1.9. after further cross referencing it is also used on citreon BX 19.
I have however not been able to ascertain the jet sizes. I even removed both main jets and neither is marked.
On the down side I have discovered I could have got it a hell of a lot cheaper!!!!!
But to end on a positive side................... My reproduced chassis plate has arrived, and...... Alaine has informed me the other plates should be ready in a few weeks Smiley Smiley but judging how long it took for this one I wont hold my breath.
Thanks again Roy. At least i can relax (til the next time)
Just waiting for the new gaskets and cable adjuster so I can fit it.....................................
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roy4matra
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« Reply #336 on: July 11, 2020, 03:41:51 pm »

RELAX, BREATHE and be HAPPY....

What a relief. Solex obviously knew what I wanted when I said 405 1.9.
This took a vast amount of searching, following links and generally getting confused on the interweb.
Found three numbers hidden behind the choke mechanism (611) which identify it as a 34 / 34 carb (doesnt specitfy Z1 or Z2. Believe it or not I eventually found that on a Volvo website!!!) The order number on the invoice is not an order number as it says but a model number (9422212900) Identifying it as (suitable) for  405 1.9. after further cross referencing it is also used on citreon BX 19.
I have however not been able to ascertain the jet sizes. I even removed both main jets and neither is marked.
On the down side I have discovered I could have got it a hell of a lot cheaper!!!!!
But to end on a positive side................... My reproduced chassis plate has arrived, and...... Alaine has informed me the other plates should be ready in a few weeks Smiley Smiley but judging how long it took for this one I wont hold my breath.
Thanks again Roy. At least i can relax (til the next time)
Just waiting for the new gaskets and cable adjuster so I can fit it.....................................

It's good to know they did supply the correct 34/34 carburettor.  It did seem strange that if you specified it was for a 1.9 they would have sent one for the lower powered smaller capacity engines.

The new chassis plate looks good Terry.

Roy
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TELBOY
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« Reply #337 on: July 24, 2020, 08:13:16 pm »

As the steering hub nut arrived today I thought i would fit it !
Has anyone else purchased the boss kit from carjoy?
Either I am doing something wrong or it doesnt fit!!!!
The splines are correct but the shaft is not long enough to get the nut on as the base of the boss interferes with the plastic surround.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 09:07:28 pm by TELBOY » Logged
TELBOY
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« Reply #338 on: September 28, 2020, 04:23:46 pm »

Been so busy lately but am using possibly the last days of summer well.
Latest issue is a blowing exhaust manifold gasket so thought I better have a look!
The manifold was secured by only 3 studs one of which didnt have a nut on!!!!! Why?Huh
Thought for a minute I may be in trouble but after manovering the manifold out of the way (It wont squeeze between the engine mount underneath or the rocker cover at the top) i managed to use the stud which came out with the nut to confirm that the studs have just made a break for freedom!!!
Ordered a nut and stud set for a 205 and a gasket set! State of my old gaskets, not too sure if the pictures are clear!!
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TELBOY
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« Reply #339 on: October 11, 2020, 04:26:23 pm »

Replacing missing and broken manifold studs. One gave me trouble but I used plenty of heat, plus gas, and the old "two nuts trick".
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TELBOY
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« Reply #340 on: November 03, 2020, 09:08:27 am »

Possibly the last update this year! and what a mad year it has been!
After months of trying to get the new Solex carb to work correctly I admit I gave up, I managed to find a Weber 32/34 DRTC on line so after negotiations managed to aquire this. I swapped out the jets on my old webber as these were different from the new one, cleaned and fitted a new gasket set. The new Webber had an automatic choke fitted so I had already purchased and re-fitted all hoses so I re-routed these so I now have a fully functioning auto choke!!! I then moved on to the distributer and found the advance retard was non functional as the balance weights were corroded and one of the springs was so weak it wasnt working. After all this EOW now starts on the first turn every time. The ignition timing needs attention as it is slightly out. I am not sure if this is because of the distributer as I have read that these distributers (its a copy as it was the only one i could find) are not very reliable so more investigation is required. In the unlikely event anyone has a Bosch 0237 009 047 knocking about  I would be grateful. I have found a few on line at astronomical prices but upon contact no one has them available. So the only real work to complete EOW is now a re spray which will hopefully be done in the spring.

Which brings me on to the bad news!!!!
As the lads who I associate with have decided that it is too risky in booking holdiays next year after not knowing if where we book will be cancelled or moved we have decided to do a tour of Britain taking in Snowdonia the lakes and then the NC500! Not knowing if EOW would be fully tested by then it would not be right if I joined the Porsches and Lancias in a modern day rep-mobile so sorry all,..... I have purchased a Porsche 944 which has already been re-stored.
I humbly ask your forgiveness and apologise un reservedly.




« Last Edit: November 03, 2020, 09:26:07 am by TELBOY » Logged
Matraman
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« Reply #341 on: November 03, 2020, 10:56:02 am »

Don't be too embarrassed about the Porsche, after my Bagheera I had a 924 S in the mid 90's, then a 944 S2, then a 911, then a Cayman and now a Macan S and a Murena 2.2. So it's possible to love both! The earlier Porsches were mainly higher mileage cheap ones and needed plenty of tlc, so make sure you test your 944 fully before the tour of Britain. Check water pump, cam belt and idlers, and steering joints, in addition to the other usual stuff. That 4 cylinder engine is usually very solid and reliable. Google Hartech if you want the full run down on what to look for.
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Andrew
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« Reply #342 on: November 03, 2020, 06:32:43 pm »

Thanks for your understanding and the info. Its had a pretty comprehensive rest including rebuilt engine belts hoses and the pump less than 500 miles ago. Also new gearbox and.  clutch. New screen and new interior. I too had a 924 back in the 80,s and the build quality is very good.
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GP
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« Reply #343 on: November 03, 2020, 08:38:38 pm »

No apologies for buying a Porsche needed here!
My 410bhp. modified Homologation Porsche 996 GT3 MK 1 Clubsport. Don't arrrf go.................
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TELBOY
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« Reply #344 on: November 03, 2020, 10:41:50 pm »

Nice  Shocked
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