| Home  Blogs Help Search Login Register  
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 Print
Author Topic: Alfa Power (Engine conversion)  (Read 25000 times)
uberprutser
Full Member
***
Posts: 67


« on: August 01, 2011, 08:37:00 pm »

I'm going to try and fit an Alfa 2.0 twin spark engine in my 2.2 Murena
I want to make it a road legal trackday car. (definitely not a comfy cruiser)
So I have lots of questions and I'm hoping the good people on this forum can help me out a bit.
The most pressing question at this moment is; Should I use a subframe like the v6 conversion or mount it to the chassis like the original engine?







Logged
krede
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1166



« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2011, 10:39:23 am »

Why the 2.0 Twinspark?.. there are a lot of MUCH better engines to use!
Logged
uberprutser
Full Member
***
Posts: 67


« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2011, 12:43:51 pm »

I think most Alfisti would disagree with that statement Smiley
I'm not a member of that cult but I do think the 2 liter 8v twinspark is a great engine.
But if there are so manny other better engines please name them. My 1.6 might be in for a new drivetrain.
But stick to the 4 cillinder inline lumps. I'm not interested in V-whatever strait 5/6 boxer or rotery engines.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 12:49:36 pm by uberprutser » Logged
krede
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1166



« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2011, 12:51:06 pm »

For the 1.6  Murena the Peugeot XU 1.9 Gti series would be my first choice. They are supposedly some of the simplest engines to fit as they share a common engine mount with the talbot unit. Some of the people here has done this conversion so you would not be starting from scratch either. and I think Carjoy in Holland can help you out too.
Apart from that these engines are also cheap to buy, easy to maintain, and tuning parts are abundant!.
Logged
Matra_Hans
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 642


Owner of Bagheera, Rancho, Murena & Espace


« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2011, 12:54:25 pm »

I like the box that you have for testing Cheesy

If you need a sub frame or not is difficult to say for those of us who have not seen you test set up. Are you able to connect the Alfa engine to the Murena’s points for engine mounts?
Further 1.6 and 2.2 Murena chassis are different in the engine compartment.

Hans
Logged
uberprutser
Full Member
***
Posts: 67


« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 01:24:28 pm »

The peugeot engine has been put in manny 1.6 Murena's.
And if you want to keep the fueltank this is a good sollution.
But I have 2.2 and don't mind moving the fuel tank to the front of the car.
I also think that the alfa engine wil beat the peugeot engine. (MI 16 excluded)
I've considered Honda since I loved my CRX but all Honda's seem to have the gearbox on the wrong side.
I guess a subframe would be easier since there are not that manny points to mount an adapter.
Logged
Matra_Hans
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 642


Owner of Bagheera, Rancho, Murena & Espace


« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 03:49:40 pm »

Re Honda powered Murena. Check this out:
http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1812.0.html
Logged
michaltalbot
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 566



« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 06:32:42 pm »

Logged

uberprutser
Full Member
***
Posts: 67


« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2011, 08:09:28 am »

Interesting  link about the honda engine to bad there are no pictures. Would have loved to see some photos. But such a setup would be to expensive for my budget and way to powerful for my limited driving skills. But I will reconsider a Honda engine when my 1.6 engine dies.

@michaeltalbot; I don't get your reply.
Logged
Jon Weywadt
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 956



« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2011, 08:36:40 am »

Interesting  link about the honda engine to bad there are no pictures. Would have loved to see some photos. But such a setup would be to expensive for my budget and way to powerful for my limited driving skills. But I will reconsider a Honda engine when my 1.6 engine dies.

@michaeltalbot; I don't get your reply.

The Honda pictures are there. You need to be logged in as a member to see the pictures. Wink
Logged

Matranaut par excellence Cool
michaltalbot
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 566



« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2011, 08:46:12 am »

Think that You don't want my reply at real  Grin

Just few facts:

AR 2,0 TS - 148 bhp, 181 Nm
Matra 2,2 S - 144 bhp, 187 Nm

Conversion costs for 2,0 TS - min. 1000,-E (axleshafts, el.fuelpump, silenblocs, exhaust, electrics, etc.)
Costs for Murena 2,2 S - max. 1000,-E (carbs 500,-E, "S" cam rebrushing 220,-E, new "Turbo" gasket 50,-E, lightening flywheel + work cca 150,-E)

Sorry but  Huh

Murena S in good condition and setting is a very fast car. I can do the very simillar time on the circuit as BMW M3, Audi Quattro 2,1T, Mercedes 2,5 Cosworth, Porsche 911 3,0, in acceleration last time I beated Mercedes E500 W124 (330PS) and he was doing as much as possible, we are friends. Problem is, that every second Murena owner thinks about tuning instead of putting his engine into a perfect condition (which could gain more bhp than "racing" air filter, tuned exhaust or installation of another - old - engine).
I know, that You have allready bought that AR engine, and You won't stop Your project, also that it is Your car, so do what You think, but I tried to explain You that it will be so much work, money and time wasted for very doubtful result...
Logged

uberprutser
Full Member
***
Posts: 67


« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2011, 09:19:11 am »

Actually it's even worse. The Alfa only produces 143 HP
And besides that I have a spare 2.2 lump laying around. I would only need a fast cam to create and S engine.

But I get it, you are a bit of a purist. That's o.k. Me I like the engineering challenge and I love to see other people modify their car. Although some creations are horrific, their passion and ingenuity is what counts.
Let me ask you one rhetorical question; What would you do when we run out of oil and the only way to drive your Murena would be to convert it to a ethyl or electric?
Would you still want to enjoy you car or would you just stare at it in the driveway?
Selling, of course is not an option Smiley
Logged
Jon Weywadt
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 956



« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2011, 10:05:43 am »

--
Would you still want to enjoy you car or would you just stare at it in the driveway?
---

I know this thetoric question was not for me, but personally I would take out the windshield, hitch up a 4-span of Clydesdales and cruise around town. 4 hp is plenty for such a light car and I want others to have time to see and enjoy its beauty.  Grin
Logged

Matranaut par excellence Cool
michaltalbot
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 566



« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2011, 11:43:08 am »

You're very right, I'm a purist  Wink my biggest sin is using those beautifull BBS RS1 15" rims on my Murena, but I have original repainted wheels with new Bridgestones for meetings  Wink

I understand Your motive, but if You're going to invest Your time, effort and money, wouldn't it be for something more "efectivelly"? I mean - one friend of mine is working as a design engineer for VW group, Mercedes-Benz, etc. He will never buy a new car because he knows how much they are ripped off because of costs reductions everywhere (for ex. they are welding the chassis as short time as possible with as small voltage as is enough for NCAP tests, metal sheets are thiner and thiner and everything is done for minimise the production costs... but that's Off Topic). He owns a lot of older cars, also one Murena 2,2 which is under "reconstruction" - possibilities of my friend are very wide so he decided to improove that old 2,2 Chrysler-Simca engine. Used forged pistons, lightened piston rods, special bearings, exhaust is calculated exactly with camshaft and bigger carburetors, stiffers valve springs, etc. He spent cca 6000,- Eur and reached 230PS at 7400 rpm (if I remember good). But from outside, the engine will still look as the original Wink
I saw a lot of modifications of Murena, some of them really far away from Murenas idea (those Honda, Mazda, Ford, etc. engines), some acceptable for me (Peugeot 505 Turbo - what in fact is an evolution of our 2,2 engine, 1,9 GTI or Mi16 - as evolution of 1,6 Murena), some of them done very cleanly, some of them are stupidly difficult and "piggy" (if it has the right sense in English language Wink ), but realy think that there have to be some "plus" at the end suitable to Your effort.

And to Your question  Cool I really don't believe to all these theories. Look how long we had to spend money for ecobusiness in the name of CO2 and heating of the Earth. All emision fees, taxes and restrictions, and now scientists found that CO2 aren't too much wrong and also that in fact we are going to face small Ice age. I think that there are some cycles in weather and human effect is irrelevant, or I have to say - personal car traffic, which is most taxed, has the minimal influence on it. One big ship engine produces in 1 hour same ammount of CO2 as one car in 5 years, and I have read that the biggest 10 transatlantic ships are producing more emisions than all cars all over the world. Than count airplanes, factories in China with no filters and controls, and many more. And Europoliticians will say that we have to pay, that our car produces more CO2 than new one? Do I have to believe them? It's only (eco)business, like it was for all times in history, people are still the same, so I don't think that we will be alive when there will be only electromobiles Wink Oil gigants will do everything to keep us dependent on them and I don't believe to politicians that there is not enaugh of oil. And at the worst, I could make a covered GPL modification Wink

PS: but back to Murena - if You want I can find a contact to one firm in Belgium, where You'll send Your 2,2 cam + 220,-E and they will send You the 2,2 S cam - I did the same.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 11:53:35 am by michaltalbot » Logged

murramor
Full Member
***
Posts: 74


« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2011, 02:42:28 pm »

The engine from my current Peugeot 207 is a little gem and would be great in a Murena.  I believe it is the same engine as that in the BMW Mini.  The engine is so smooth and feels powerful even although mine is only the 88Kw model.  If more power is required one of the turbo variants would make the Murena a fast and beautiful car in my opinion.
regards
Ron Murrell
Sydney
Logged

Ron Murrell
Sydney, Australia
Pages: [1] 2 3 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to: