EOW 1W MATRA 1.9 RESTORATION

[TELBOY]

Flare nuts arrived! Roy listed the size above. Thanks Roy. Next day off Thursday cant wait!

[roy4matra]

Wouldn't it be easier to make up a normal metal brake pipe with a short flexible hose at the rear by the engine?  I would think that the threads in the master cylinder and the slave cylinder would be the same as in the braking system?

Not quite Terry.

You can indeed use a normal brake type tubing, and is what I plan on my own car, but although you would use the same 4.75mm copper nickel as you do for the braking system, the threaded holes in the master and slave cylinders are not the normal M10x1.00 but are actually M12x1.00 mm!  This is to allow for the larger plastic pipe (7mm o/d as stated).

So you need special flare nuts that are M12x1.00 but with only a 4.75 mm hole for the pipe.  Also you have the problem that the seat for the normal nipple end of the pipe is not in the master or slave cylinders.  These have been made to suit the plastic pipe and rubber seal, so the bore inside has a flat surface instead of a conical face.

An alternative is to use some thread adapters from M12x1.00 down to M10x1.00 and then make up the brake pipes as normal - except that whilst all the brake pipes have metric DIN flare ends, the only thread adapters I can find here, have conical bubble seats, so you would have to make this pipe up with SAE bubble flare ends.

As for the flexibility required, obviously some are too young (or older ones have forgotten) how we used to fasten capillary water temperature gauges and oil pressure gauge pipes when these were mechanical not electric!  You don't need a flexible section - you simply make a couple of circles of the tubing approx 50mm dia. between the last fixing point of the pipe and where it fastens to the slave cylinder!  These couple of coils allow the small movement necessary without stressing the tubing.

(and Matra used a plastic pipe not for flexibility which we always knew how to cope with, but for cheapness - everything done that is worse today, is to reduce costs!)

Roy

[TELBOY]

Thanks Roy. By the way I  ome in to the "too young" catagory. I had read about putting some loops into a metal pipe but was rold that these could eventually fracture too. I was scepticle as as far as i knew most cars have metal pipes.

[roy4matra]

Thanks Roy. By the way I  ome in to the "too young" catagory. I had read about putting some loops into a metal pipe but was rold that these could eventually fracture too. I was scepticle as as far as i knew most cars have metal pipes.

The copper nickel piping is too soft to have a problem with a couple of coils and some flexing even if it work hardened with age, and that would probably take longer than the number of years we have left with petrol engines!   Even with the firmer capillary tubing we used to use, I've never had or seen one fracture.  As long as the coils are about mid-point between last fixing and slave cylinder, and oriented for the direction of movement likely, it will be fine.

Roy

[TELBOY]

That could be the problem then. So am I  correct in thinking with a metal pipe ( and using the Murena as an example) the pipe.would.have to leave the slave.cylinder at 90 deg  have the coils in it and then another 90 deg bend to exit the engine bay to able to flex as the engine rocked back and forth? Maks sense now

[roy4matra]

That could be the problem then. So am I  correct in thinking with a metal pipe ( and using the Murena as an example) the pipe.would.have to leave the slave.cylinder at 90 deg  have the coils in it and then another 90 deg bend to exit the engine bay to able to flex as the engine rocked back and forth? Maks sense now

Well I don't know exactly how the positions, orientations and connections are on yours as you have a Peugeot unit rather than the Matra/Citroen transmission of the original Murena, and I am also more familiar with the 2.2 than the 1.6 where the slave cylinders are totally different and differently situated on the transmission, but if you think about it, the engine transmission will try to rock rotationally (although if the bushes are good, it should be well controlled) so if the pipe is at the top of the bell housing and the pipe clipped to the chassis further forward, it will want to expand or contract longitudinally along the car front to back.  So if the coils are oriented with the input and output of the coils also along that line, as the powertrain rocks the coils can open or close slightly to accommodate that movement.

I hope that makes sense as it is almost more difficult to describe than to fit!

Roy

[TELBOY]

LOL got it Roy,
New wheels on EOW with 185/55/14 tyres front and 195/60/14 at the rear..............the end is in sight 

[TELBOY]

OK.........so I've taken a day off...place will still be there tomorrow!
The other door card ready to fit, its hot out there!
Has anyone got a good idea on a steering wheel. Photos, if I need a boss, what make etc? Would appreciate it.

[TELBOY]

Finally fitted the new clutch slave cylinder, all the new pipeing (yes its blue) and bled the system. Works fine. The pushrod comes out at a funny angel due to the indent on the actuating arm being a little further out. This, as far as I know didnt effect the old cylinder working so shouldnt be a problem. I have enough of the plastic pipe to do the job about 5 times over as it came in a roll as I couldnt find 7mm by the metre. Alot can be said for it being bolted on and not held in with a circlip lol. But it was still a right pain to reach and undo.

[Anders Dinsen]

Congrats! Blue piping looks good, I think

That angle sure looks strange. The pushrod is round on the ends, but I'm thinking that at this angle there might be a risk of it causing damage to the outer seal over time? I'm guessing. Lennart has the same engine and gearbox, as far as I know, so maybe we can get him to take a picture of his.

/Anders

[TELBOY]

Thats what I thought Anders. When I was lying under it looking at the old one before removal, I couldnt help but think that surely it couldnt be correct. I also thought that maybe it had been fitted wrong! I would have thought that it should have been infront of the mounting and not behind. That way all the force is transfered to the mounting on the gear box and not just the two bolts. I am going to have another look in the morning, have been trying to sort out the dash warning lights today and routing the blue pipe, bleeding the system took a while but it does all appear to be funtioning correctly.

[TELBOY]

ok so I removed the slave cylinder and put it to where I thought it should be. It was pretty clear why it had been placed behind the mounting points! Took about 3hrs since 7 this morning. The rod is now straight and lines up with the indent on the actuating arm, However, the dust seal now touches the actuating arm. Should be ok.
So I admit it..................Maybe a circlip isnt so bad!!!! 

[TELBOY]

Totally off any topic but thought I'd share. Back in the day. A good friend sent me these the other day. Think it must be 81, 82 Me on the left Andy on the right. First delve into the world of Matra. Andy is currently restoring a series 2 Baggy, (and others)
Wonder what ever happened to her?

[Anders Dinsen]

Totally off any topic but thought I'd share. Back in the day. A good friend sent me these the other day. Think it must be 81, 82 Me on the left Andy on the right. First delve into the world of Matra. Andy is currently restoring a series 2 Baggy, (and others)
Wonder what ever happened to her?

Great pictures fra another era! Two young men looking handsome and very busy in jeans, leather jackets and 80's haircuts. You must have attracted some ladies with that car and those looks

ok so I removed the slave cylinder and put it to where I thought it should be. It was pretty clear why it had been placed behind the mounting points! Took about 3hrs since 7 this morning. The rod is now straight and lines up with the indent on the actuating arm, However, the dust seal now touches the actuating arm. Should be ok.
So I admit it..................Maybe a circlip isnt so bad!!!!  

That looks so much better! Circilips are fine - if you remember to fit them the right way around and grease the housing well when fitting Congrats!

[TELBOY]

LOL any hair would be good these days!
I am trying to find somewhere to reproduce the vin plates.
Can anyone advise me of the wording?
Also what do the numbers on the bottom right signify? was thinking year and build possibly? (80/4164)
(Cant see anyone trying to clone it)